Inward Journey

Honesty - Episode 38

• Kevin Bergin

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Kevin:

Hello.

Jeannene:

That doesn't sound a very welcoming. Hello.

Kevin:

It was an honest. Hello.

Jeannene:

Oh, my goodness. That's

Kevin:

how I am right now. Hello. That's good.

Jeannene:

This is an interesting way to start Kevin.

Kevin:

We haven't done a usual. Intro. Yeah, the land we're on.

Jeannene:

Uh, we're on one jury land.

Kevin:

We. We're on the one jury land and with. We are grateful for that.

Jeannene:

Absolutely. We want to acknowledge that. The elders and.

Kevin:

Eldest president. And those emerging is what we want to honor.

Jeannene:

Very importantly.

Kevin:

Yes. Okay. So where does that leave us?

Jeannene:

It leaves us with our topic tonight.

Kevin:

We're going to be done in 50 seconds

Jeannene:

tonight. Today,

Kevin:

today, too. It's. Not tonight is tonight. In. Is it Pennsylvania, that place where they're having the debate at the moment. But she ran talk about. I want to sort of come out of that. I'm not sure why I've listed that.

Jeannene:

We're talking about honesty,

Kevin:

honesty. Yeah, we certainly wouldn't talk about the debate then. Honestly. Yeah. So

Jeannene:

after a rolling Scott.

Kevin:

We've even talked about politics already, which we don't do.

Jeannene:

It's one of those days people were, I dunno, the random is rife. And do not speak your coffee all over. You.

Kevin:

Yeah, I did, but I was close. That's the second

Jeannene:

time. That's the second time.

Kevin:

The needs in the.

Jeannene:

I'm not in.

Kevin:

In the mood.

Jeannene:

I'm not

Kevin:

in a crazy mood. Kind of crazy thing.

Jeannene:

With my dog, it wasn't me. I couldn't.

Kevin:

The dog.

Jeannene:

So we're going to talk about honesty.

Kevin:

Honestly, honestly, we are.

Jeannene:

Honestly. Honestly, we're

Kevin:

going to talk about honestly,

Jeannene:

Honesty.

Kevin:

crazy.

what are our conclusions? Easy, uh, started off this podcast. Thinking I was honest and I'm finishing up this podcast, knowing that I'm a bloody liar. Yeah, I think we can all put ourselves in that category. All of this, but you know yeah. All of us.

Jeannene:

It just brings to mind the Billy Joel song around honesty.

Kevin:

Okay.

Jeannene:

Every one is. Um,

Kevin:

could you invite really Joel?

Jeannene:

Honesty. Mostly what I'm me from you?

Kevin:

All right.

Jeannene:

Which is interesting because it actually is something that we need to do and deal with ourselves.

Kevin:

Well,

Jeannene:

honesty,

Kevin:

honesty. Starts with yourself. Do you think

Jeannene:

starts with yourself?

Kevin:

What if it doesn't.

Jeannene:

Um,

Kevin:

what if, what if, what if. What if you don't know what honesty is. What, if you think you're being honest. And, you know,

Jeannene:

What do you mean? Well, I think, a lot of people sit in denial. Yeah, because they don't. In a

Kevin:

river.

Jeannene:

No. Because they actually don't want to be honest with themselves. So that's kind of something. Important, but a little bit different.

Kevin:

Okay. It's

Jeannene:

still on topic still on topic and

Kevin:

yeah. So, what does it do to you life if you're

Jeannene:

dishonest,

Kevin:

dishonest, I guess, or list no dishonest.

Jeannene:

Well, if you dishonest, you pretending. So that sometimes that can be pretending for different reasons. Don't you reckon? Because you're not feeling too.

Kevin:

Cause you. Well, the fit in you don't feel like you fit it. Sort of thing. Pretending. Because you want to manipulate. Something. Could

Jeannene:

be,

Kevin:

yeah. Situation. Manipulate people. I'm person or a group of people,

Jeannene:

because you don't feel safe to express. Yeah. Fully be who you are.

Kevin:

Dishonest because. You're embarrassed about something.

Jeannene:

Would we call those things dishonest though.

Kevin:

Oh, I just did.

Jeannene:

Yeah. I know, but maybe, they're not so much dishonest so much as do you just expressing parts of yourself. Not expressing all of yourself, because let's just think about.

Kevin:

Just have some examples.

Jeannene:

Yeah, I know. I was going to give you one.

Kevin:

Okay. Sorry.

Jeannene:

So, if we thinking about. Somebody who is. Same-sex attracted. And you're feeling uncomfortable in the group that you're with to express. Your, uh, feelings of affection for. A particular person in another group, and you don't want to say that you feel attracted to. The same sex as you and in that group. Is that person actually denying that part of themselves. Or are they.

Kevin:

No. But they're not telling the truth.

Jeannene:

Maybe, but. About what about if their truth is much harder to say than somebody else's

Kevin:

fair enough, but it's still not the truth, which makes it dishonest. Doesn't it?

Jeannene:

Nah, I wouldn't say that. There's a place. If someone doesn't feel safe and if.

Kevin:

With any judgment, it's just too. It's still not the truth.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Okay. All right. Good point. It's not the truth. But maybe they're just. expressing parts of themselves that are safe to be expressed in that group.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

And the risk. You know, if it's. Two. What can keep themselves safe or to save themselves from attack. Then. That's a pretty good reason to hold that.

Kevin:

When you put it. Yeah. To not be attacked. They'll be ostracized.

Jeannene:

Absolutely. Yeah. Because there's a lots of reasons. I mean, I've just picked on. Uh, same-sex attracted, but there's lots of reasons why you wouldn't share parts of yourself with. Someone. Or a group of people.

Kevin:

talking to a bunch of bigots.

Jeannene:

This is true.

Kevin:

Let's just try to make it less serious. It's already got serious.

Jeannene:

It's not serious.

Kevin:

It's serious.

So we don't know what to talk about. So we're going to talk about. How difficult it is to talk about being honest. Is that right? I get that right. That's not the way I would say it. Okay. No. But it's a really difficult topic to actually. To fathom, how do we. Talk about honesty. Because I feel like I'm a very. Honest person. What makes someone an honest person? Talking about things as they are. Because if I think about it, With my mom, for example. There's lots of. Things I would not have ever told her. Because you would break out. With things that I do, so I wouldn't call that dishonest. and I'm not hiding it from anyone around me that I have. Close relationship with. I have a close relation to with my mother. It's rather not one though. So honesty can be a range of things. It could be like, I go into the supermarket. And like, you know, I actually go and talk to a human being and give them real cash. And we give me money. And it's$20 too much. But the honest thing to do is to give them the$20 back, regardless of. Any of your circumstances, the thoughts. Yeah. Also, or the other end of the scale, honesty is about. You made a close friend and they say how you're doing it. So instead of saying, yeah, Fred on fine. You say, Hey, it's good to see you. Yeah. Not such a good day. And here's what's going on. Yeah, that would be able to share that with them in a way that, I wanted that is completely. Honest. Without being. Something else. Yeah. Sometimes, I don't want to share all that with somebody though. But well, so. So that means. So if I say to you, hi Janine, how are you going? And you go. Bye. I'm not going to do that, but what you didn't hear, what I said is I wouldn't want to share that with someone. So what I would say. Yeah. So that I feel grounded and I feel honest with me. I might say. I'm doing I K. And then you might inquire. Yeah. If you're some kind of offense, dude. And your inquiry would go, oh really? So tell me about that. Not today, Kevin. I've got other things to talk about some other day. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I might say, yeah, or. Or I might say. Uh, some other time. I might just address it in a way that's still honest for me. Yeah. And, it's honest without relation to, because I don't want to pretend or. That everything's okay. I also don't want to disclose everything because that doesn't feel. fair or good or healthy for the moment, because the moment I don't want. Focus on this. You know what? It's an honesty. It's not easy. Thank you. I don't think it is. It's just thinking about. Oh, yeah, I, me, this is a good one. Yeah, it never happened, but it could've happened. I bought these three t-shirts a long time ago. Yeah. And a garage sale. The job. So whatever you call it, wherever you are Garrett. So, yeah, and I was going around with a friend and we were buying and selling things. And he wouldn't buy clothes, but I'd always look at the closest, always closed. And I found these t-shirts and they were wrong. But Snoopy t-shirts. They were lunch. And so you could wear them with anything. So I bought all three of them. Yeah. I don't have a dirt cheap. Um, And I didn't check, you know, they looked like they weren't regular or anything like that. And when I got them home, They were all covered in really strong perfume. And I washed them and washed them and washed them. And, um, and then last night, I went to a meeting and, um, I'm old friend. This is not me. Oh, well, Walked up to me and gave me a hug and I could see on his face and I was wearing this Snoopy t-shirt. And I can see on his face. He caught it fully in the faces, this whiff of. Really strong perfume. I get used to it. We're good. Um, and he didn't say anything. And I nearly said to. Sorry about the perfume. And I thought, no. Leave him with it. So, how does that relate to honesty? He was dishonest. Not necessarily just didn't want to disclose do you at the moment. That's the kind of dishonesty. That's what I was thinking about. Does he have an obligation to tell you that he's affected by your perfume? Maybe he liked it and was confused. He didn't like it and just. Does it, does he have an obligation to you to tell you. Maybe not. So, okay. I've got one. No. I've got one. Yep. So. I can remember man years ago. Greg was very brave. With me and said, when you do this. When we're intimate. Just the two of us. and I presented like a little girl. He said. I don't like that. Well, well, it's brave. And I went. Wow. And I knew exactly what he meant. And what happened for me is this incredible thing where I went, whoa. What a brave thing to tell me. It made perfect sense and gave me information around how he likes closeness. And then it really challenged me in this lovely way to be a woman. And the fascinating thing is from that moment. I started to recognize that, oh, I'm a little girl in this situation. And that situation, not only in my intimate relationship, that it's spilled over in a whole lot of things, that I'm a little girl in conversations with this person I become. Oh, is that what you think? You know, kind of little girly. And I don't have the strengths or the adult or the assertiveness from the woman. Yup. And. It had this beautiful, profound. Knock on effect into all these other parts of my life. And so. He's was a bravery that are really honored in there. And he's done that in. Some of our early parts of our relationship. And I think that's one of the things that I love about him. That element of risk to want to be close to me. And I often talk about that. Sometimes it's the harder conversations are the most endearing. The most loving ones, because they've got the risk of conflict. And when they're resolved, there's something that beautifully can settle between the couple. Now that doesn't mean that the conflict is easy. Because I think, there's parts of me that went into a turmoil in that I'm doing this wrong and all my goodness, I'm a little girl in all these other parts of our relationship and all my other relationships. But that was something that I needed to learn and a growth stage. Yep. It was honest. It's much better than the example I was going to use. Um, In narcotics anonymous. We talk about honesty a lot. Yeah. And there were three. Principals spiritual principles. If you will. Um, Uh, central to, Healing basically from addiction. Yeah. Any addiction. Yeah, it was honesty, openness and willingness. Honesty is. Foremost and probably the most important. And it's so difficult, but it becomes After a while. If I'm being dishonest for anything and over any length of time, it doesn't just, affect me and the way that it normally would, my awareness of how it affects me. Is as a spiritual level, it's like it of. It hurts. Someone's soul. Yeah. I know because. I'm talking to people who know me and around people who knew me. And if they don't know me, They know that, I'm in recovery. Uh, most of them. Most of the bullshit detectors are pretty good. They already know. So there's an encouragement, to be honest. I mean, this you're doing what. But you need to do what you said earlier, which is yeah. Not now. Yeah. Yeah. Because we sit. Usually in a circle. And. There's usually somebody running the meeting and they peep people to share. Yeah. The rest of the expectation. But you'll talk on whatever the subject is. Can you talk about yourself generally? Yeah. And you'll be open and honest about that. Yeah. Want to say no, I don't want to talk. I think that people can present as open and honest and not being. But I sat. They liked playing the part. But let me go back to you. And I. But So, let me go back to you and I, when you're not honest with me, okay, come on. Let's go. So when you're not honest with me, I can. Oh, not so much. It's not a dishonesty so much as there's something going on. And. I feel quite disconnected from you and it's. That is. Well, I guess that's a way of understanding it. Yeah. Yeah. And I can feel that. And it's almost like there's an untruth that sits between us and gets in the way. Yeah. So stuff that some of the spine can be. Yes or no, it could be more than an unspoken comment. Like disguised. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I often think about that thing about pretending and I think. Like my growing years. I can think of lots of pretending. Particularly if you've been a survivor of some tough stuff. Uh, whether it's trauma in relationships or grief or whatever's going on for you, there can be lots of pretending going on. Maybe. We could talk about those in terms of masks. Maybe we could talk about those in some times they're healthy things around. I've got to get on and survive and park some other stuff. But there's a point where you need to be honest with yourself. And it doesn't matter what ways it comes out. So if it, causes a disconnection between you and the other person, then it needs to be dealt with. It actually causes disconnection. Between me and me. Yeah. Yeah. So to me and everything else. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes. If I sit with something, for example, If there's been something said that has not felt great between myself and. Just hacks Greg on the kids or, or a friend then, so much, as it depends on me, I really want to. be at peace with that. And so there is an honesty where if, if I've made a mistake, I'm going to own it. I'm going to say, yep. This is something that's. Uh, bothering me and I need to be honest with you. And I think that cleanses the space and it. It does. Does that spiritual thing that you said all the stuff. All straightforward. Um, but it is doable and it does clear the space. Yeah. Um, now I wonder what everybody else thinks, but. I was honest with you just then. You told me not to rush. I did. Sometimes you get in this. State where you're just rushing to put things on and then to say it really quickly. And I got. That's not. I'm rushing because I don't want that to be a gap, but we started dating. Okay. I know you said. We can change the gaps. Yeah. But also is it. I was honest with you in to say. Don't rush. Please. And I want to risk that in our relationship because I want there to be no. Things that sit in between our relationship. I want it to be honest. The three new and are the things that bothered me. We'll walk into a session. And you started telling me about I'm an angry person. No, I'm not. That really bothered me. And then you times. Can't think why. I am not. I am not an angry person. I've only ever told you, you weren't angry. I said it like that. You say things like. Sound angry. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. I can't get, I don't know how you put it. Uh, I can't see you or hear you or something like that. Yeah. Don't you think in that pisses you off when it comes from a really calm person? It pisses me off. The word she used to use to get. Well, watch it talking about. That's not correct. That's like when, someone might say to me, you sound stressed. I've just got five things to do. If you had four things to do. I've got 10 things to do. And I had a name to the mall, but. Things that are current and working in active now. So, what do you want me to do about it? And I need to do these things. And you just in my way, don't tell me I'm stressed. I'm not stressed. I'm a bit stressed. It's hard. I think it's really hard to hear that kind of stuff when you're reactive, but sometimes it's really important to hear. I got a story. I had a couple actually. I don't know if I can tell the other two. Anyway, the first one I can. Just honest about the other two. Uh, maybe. It's not talking about them being just on us. No we've established that. Sometimes, sometimes it's interesting. Yes. And also you can protect the other person. Oh, I've got a story about that. One. Carry on Kevin. Oh, thank you so much. That feels a little bit Sparky. At least it was honest. That's true. Uh, no, I named it a spiky. You didn't name it as spiky as you spiked at me. Then my reaction was. Okay. Cool. So I was, In quite a nice relationship. Um, sometime. With a woman and, um, Yeah, I thought it was going well. And she did as well for a long time. Maybe let's say three years. And, and that was great. And we had, uh, our own lives and we spent time together and did things together. And that was good. So it was, It's good for me. And I wanted to keep it like that. So. She started to ask him for more than that, suggesting that. More than that. I don't know how it was so dishonest. Um, I just thought. I, I, you know, I could have talked about it. I did I avoided the subject. Um, I wouldn't talk about it. I wouldn't even look at her and she wanted to talk about it. And I know that, that it wouldn't have been easy for her to talk about. Um, so what did I do? When did you do. Started looking around on internet dating sites. Swap one for another one. Hey Kay. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah, and I got cool. And who. New me. I was on one of those sites. So I wrecked that relationship and I regretted it. And then we want to try to. Um, like better. Patch it up. Yeah. And not if it wasn't possible. So that's where it dishonesty takes me. It always comes out something like that. Yeah. And we're laughing about it now because it is. Laughable, but back at the time, it's certainly not probably left to maybe your dog. She might throw something at me, but yeah, I doubt it would be we've remained friends. Yeah. Yeah. That was good. Patched it up that much. Yeah. We patched up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about honesty and, the appropriateness of honesty. And I think so much of my life. Was with my growing years with my parents having this secret. So they had lots of. And there were sea goods, lots of them. So I won't go into details about that. Yeah, I guess I will. So. So my. My parents would smoke in the bedroom. Yeah. And I didn't even know which parents I knew it was my mum, but I didn't know whether it was my dad as well, but they would go in the bedroom and smoke. What's wrong with that? They'd never smoke in front of us, but they didn't talk about it. They didn't say. So smoke individually, everybody in the house have known about it. No. It was the same grit. We don't talk about. Duh. Oh, So, yes. It was one of the secrets. Yeah. And so I. Had this adverse reaction growing up, I wanted to tell. Everybody, everything. Do you know that everybody. And everything doesn't need to be told. Yeah. What I did notice this with bringing up my kids. I wanted to tell them everything. You know that about your, your grandmother? No, no, no. Or your Nana? No. I would tell them everything because they needed to not have any secrets. What was I doing? I was trying to recover my life by. Yeah. I inviting this thought children. And I, have made some mistakes around that, just over telling everything and giving them adult status when they're just kids. Yep. And so, there's been some things I've needed to um, do or heal from. And my own relationships with my children. But it's, important to know that. I'm a work in progress. And again, a loving relationship, even when mistakes are made, we can recover some of that. We can recover from dishonesty. We can recover from over modesty. Or mistakes. So all of those things are possible. So long as we're respectful. I believe anyway. And it doesn't mean that the other person needs to, or should. Recover from our behavior. That's going to be up to them. As survivors, it depends on me. I want to be as honest as I can and respectful to the space. So sometimes it means. Sorry, everything. But if it's going to get in the way their relationship, I'm going to. I could do my best to talk about that. So that's a good point. So there's a line, isn't it. I think so. How do you decide. Which side of the line to be on. So the lines of something like. Um, I can talk about that. Could be totally honest about that line. Other side of the line is. I'm not sure what's going to happen. If I talk about that. I think you can't know. Yeah, but I think. Risk is where trust is. And you can't. Trust if you don't risk. So risking is a healthy thing. Yeah. And it means I'm going to. Risk being close in the relationship and it's going to be a healthy and a good risk. So I'm going to risk being honest. So. You should have told me. I am worried about where this is going people. Well being autistic. And you didn't. Oh, so I should share every opinion that I have about. You or somebody else? Oh, I mean, I didn't even share what I thought about myself in terms of neurodiversity. Did I, Kevin? No, you didn't. No. Ah, so should I have done that? Maybe should I have shared what I thought about you in terms of neuro-diversity. Yes. Because it's honest. Isn't it. Isn't that. Just isn't that what we were just talking about, that we don't have to share everything. Because mine. My thing is just my opinion. Which side of the line. That's right. That's right. We were talking about. Neuro-diversity. I can't remember when. More recently. And again, it's a big topic. And so we just had that discussion and we talked about it and, uh, you know, there's parts of myself that I can be quite autistic. I can see pictures, all of those sorts of things. And so, and there's parts of myself that are very ADHD. And it would have dunk. And so then we had that conversation. About you. Long time ago. In London, my friend, Neil. I remember having this conversation with him. So he was one of the workers in the. Um, community. I'm answering. I stopped using drugs and they became a close friend, a best friend. I think we were still in Elizabeth House at the time. Anyway, I don't know what I've been doing, but I'd obviously be telling somebody at some point about. The fact that I was a drug addict and a. All of my history. I remember him very gently saying, you know, You don't have to tell him. And I've said something like, oh, you gotta do. You know, Connie, to be totally honest. It almost is good, but you knew. Sometimes it's too much. You made a beautiful point just then. The difference for me is being honest with myself. And if you're honest with yourself in that, you know, that that's an issue for you, you know what your truth is? Then, whether you disclose it or not. Can be irrelevant. Not always. It's not always. Respectful to the relationship. If you've got a close relationship with someone and you don't disclose parts of yourself, maybe that's worth considering. Yeah. However. It's not necessary. A given that you would share everything with everybody, but if you're honest with yourself around, these are my. Misgivings, or these are the areas of my vulnerabilities where I need to work on, or I need to look after myself in these particular areas. That's a great thing. It's not about me, but I can remember. Fantastic example. Mm. Well, there were no. I agree with it or anybody else's doesn't really matter. Of this. Well respected guy and he's talking. This nurse who was a friend of mine. I'm new that both was, took it to the thing. I really granted I'm not using drugs anymore. And, um, I'm going to go into work tomorrow and. Tell them all about it. And she went into some detail about what she was going to do and he wait patiently. And when she stopped, she looked up at him and he said, Inside narcotics anonymous. Honesty is the best possible thing. Outside. Narcotics anonymous. We lie, our offices have. Okay. We all looked at him, as you said, Should lose that license. Um, not necessary. So she could sit to her, something to go over bloods. You might want to wait. A beautiful, oh folks. That was just my phone. Maybe we'll turn that off. he was a lovely man. I love too. I don't know about. Yeah. The laws and it's interesting because maybe he was saying, we've all got a past. Yeah. And. Maybe the past doesn't have to be disclosed at every level. Again, there's definitely areas of gray on all things. But there wasn't any need for her to go in and tell her her boss. Yes. My boss, wasn't sitting down thinking, Aw, I think she's an addict. Yeah. And there was none of that going on and there's no current issue. Coming from her. Yeah. Um, maybe sometimes it's not. Just coming from a place of honesty of volume. Maybe it's also coming from. Place of guilt and shame. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, This thing to do is just wait. Yeah. so he was right. So maybe what we're talking about is just. More. So being in touch with what's happening for you and in your relationships, that respectful thing does this piece of information need to be disclosed in this area? What's the impact of it. Does it care for the relationship? If it's shared. Oh, in my case with the children. It doesn't care for the relationship? No. Puts a burden on my children. Yeah. In that instance. Yeah. And so we can be different around those things. Some times it's okay to withhold some information. I'm not jumping in. As soon as we start. I'm like, oh, Just taking my money. So have you finished pondering Kevin? Have you ever lied? No Belize and Belize. Story. Sound really important. Sometimes sometimes, how are we talking about what lies. But yeah, here's the thing about white lies, fibs. Yeah. It's just a little thing. Untrue that's. All of those allies and themselves. Alone. It is a lie. Unless, if we were Canadian, maybe there's some poetic license in that space, but generally speaking. Writers actors. Yeah. It may be in that space. And I think. I used to. What lie or embellish a story. In the past. And now I just tell the stories as they become that funnier. Or more ridiculous or more profoundly honest. I still feel that pull if I feel, Insecure unsafe. So I'm talking about something particularly to do with me. I still feel that pool and will occasionally. Woo. For the job. Yeah. You know, et cetera, make it grander or make it more desperate, whatever the story was about.. I don't like it, unless it actually. Is obvious that you're embellishing the story. Yeah. Then I don't want to do I remember. Greg. And I had gone on this four wheel drive trip and Bianca and I had, pulled out. fascinate us to put in our hair because it was Melbourne cup day. And I want to say it. There we are in the Bush. With drop toilets. and. Not fancy outfits to wear. But we bought these fascinators along and I put one in her hair and I had one in mine. And so these lovely feathers and everything. And the interesting thing is. Later on a different trip. There was a fellow there who was talking about the previous trips that he'd been on and he talked about, oh, and we'd gone away on this Melbourne cup day. And all the women pulled out. Fascinators to put in their hair and they dressed for the occasion and I'm just thinking. Oh, you're talking about me and Bianca. And he didn't Baelish this story. And there was someone else there who'd been on the weekend and they looked at me and I looked at them as like, Yes. And I really think that this fellow thought that that was the story. Telling it like that for so long, it becomes the truth too. I didn't know what was fascinating about that is. I've been listening to his stories about being over in America. Some of the things with his children and I'm just going. Oh, okay. Now I've got a sense of these stories. And I'd wonder. About them and now I'm going. There's some truth in my experience of you telling your stories. The story was a. Whatever, whatever size. Yeah. And it became a five or six times the sun. Yeah. So my experience of him. Was that. He would embellish their stories. And that was my honest experience of him. So. It would make me not trust. A lot of what he had to say. Interesting fellow. And again, Did it do harm? No, he was having fun and telling a story about. Yeah, it was interesting because I disliked it. Ma caused me to mistrust. Yeah. These previous or other stories is going to tell me, I'm just thinking. How can I trust you from here on. So it's interesting. And it's worth just talking about this topic around honesty. Be honest. Yeah. It's like sometimes I get like that. Around friends. In a competitive way. Or they say something funny. I can do better than that. And I couldn't be home. Two truths. And, you know, Does it make you feel better? That's fun. But exaggerating, You know, just generally no, that's look fun. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. For some reason. And you tell him that story. I was thinking about. I think I was on holiday in Australia. I haven't moved to you. And I arrived in February and it was like 40 degrees as it can be. And Jillian sister. So that we could go down to the peninsula and use the kind of German. So, this is like, The first, whole day that I'd been there. I woke up. In the morning. And it was hot. It was really, hopefully. Julian was, uh, comes from Melbourne. So. She was really, really climatizing, but she wasn't surprised that she knew what to do. And she told me what she was going to do for the day. And I'm just like really, she was just going to. But there was an annex. She was going to lay on the lounge. Just read it. I'm wondering, I'm going to go walk down there. Yeah. Past to the beach. Oh, yeah. I know why I'm telling this story. And so I told her what I was going to do. She said, no. It's going to be 41 degrees today. You don't want to do that. But a kilometer before you get to the beach and when you get there. There'll be nobody there and it'd probably be windy and it'll get really hot. You'll get burned. And you get sunstroke. So I took no notice and oh, put a hat on. I walked down there and I was sure enough, I got the car. And it was already covered in sweat. Oh, this wasn't a good idea. I give up. And I've turned around on. I went back and I was just. Can I go back into the trees and heading up towards the caravan. And so rather than into the caravan site for the edge. And she told me to watch out for snakes. Suddenly there was a snake in front of me. I'm not even the ground. And a Jew. To the sun. I ran off the road and told her. She said really? Like close. Oh, that's pretty unusual for the, be that close. Let me first put, Protect your clothes are going to have a look. So we went and had a look. And I'm on the way down there. I remember I was telling her what the snake was like and how big it was. And. That was a lie. I exaggerated. Well, I actually saw in that short time, But this is funny because it's also funny because when we got back there, the snake that I saw, it was still there. It was a piece of rope. And it's become a family trait. What the family didn't know beside exaggerated, what I saw. And then the next time they didn't believe me. I was with, Julian's cousin. On the other side of Portland. And he was a keen photographer, but he'd like to take photographs of birds. So it took me out with him. And we're walking up this hill again, it's really hot day. And we're walking up this hill and, we're walking over slate. Let's just slate. Yeah. And suddenly. Something keep me on the back of my leg. And I turned around. Let's just like slithering off the side of a path. And I literally lipped on Graham's back and he turned around and he saw the end of it and he said, That was a lizard. Wasn't it? I said, no, it was a snake. And when we got back, he got out all these books. Pick it. Well, I picked it and it was a comprehension. Blue. That was real. But that is a thing around if you exaggerate and people don't believe you embellish this story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crying Wolf reason that the term. Crime. That's right. Yeah. The crime will, time was three times. You do it three times. Yeah. Yeah. And nobody's going to believe you. So what are our conclusions? Easy, uh, started off this podcast. Thinking I was honest and I'm finishing up this podcast, knowing that I'm a bloody liar. Yeah, I think we can all put ourselves in that category. All of this, but you know yeah. All of us. Thinking about how. Honest, we are in moments. And what are we doing when we're. Less honest, dishonest. Withholding information. Is it respectful? Is it kind to us? Does it clear the airways, all of that stuff. Yeah, that's good. Okay. Hopefully, we're honest with you, people. We haven't been. It's just that we haven't been. I'm speaking for both of us. Yes. Thank you. Display. Speak for you. It's better for you. No, don't you turn that off. We're going now. I'm going to turn it off. No. We're finished. The statement. Say the R statements. Say aye. With everyone. We'll continue the argument. That will be honest. All right. Oh, my goodness. Go well people and I'll catch you next time and I'll resolve this thing. That's happening here. Oh, well, people will catch you next time. Bye. See you later.

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Jeannene

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Kevin

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