Inward Journey

Projection - episode 36

• Kevin Bergin • Season 1 • Episode 36

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Jeannene:

Hello and welcome to our podcast. You're here with Janine

Kevin:

and Kevin,

Jeannene:

and we're here recording today on Wonduri Land. It's a beautiful day out there today, isn't it, Kevin?

Kevin:

It's about 17 degrees I would think, and it's very sunny.

Jeannene:

Yes.

Kevin:

Beautiful.

Jeannene:

And it's coming into that spring time in Melbourne, so it's quite cheery actually.

Kevin:

It's good. It's the time of the year where It gets warmer, and then it gets colder, then it gets warm, and the day, daylight gets longer. It's good for the soul.

Jeannene:

And you get very excited about the buds on the trees, don't you?

Kevin:

That's how I judge that it's actually changing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, don't be critical. Maybe

Jeannene:

I

Kevin:

don't need to. Oh no, do be critical! It's not, don't be critical. It's do be critical. Well, it's not do but be aware. Yeah. Of being critical. So

Jeannene:

it's not do be critical. Don't be critical people. But if you

Kevin:

do, be critical people. But

Jeannene:

notice when you're critical.

Kevin:

Yes. But you can't do that. You can't, don't be critical. And notice when you're critical, they're directly opposite.

Jeannene:

So you have to do, be critical and then notice when you are critical.

Kevin:

So,

Jeannene:

so you can stop being critical.

Kevin:

Yeah. Today we're talking about criticizing others.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Or, I hate that.

Jeannene:

Yeah, that's all part of it, isn't it?

Kevin:

It is.

Jeannene:

Then welcome to the podcast.

Kevin:

And it's called

Jeannene:

Inward Journey. And it's talking about all things relationships. And particularly with a focus on what's happening with ourselves inwardly.

Kevin:

Yes. As opposed to outwardly.

Jeannene:

So, I wanted to call this episode Projective Identification.

Kevin:

Oh, puke!

Jeannene:

And you went, no!

Kevin:

No! So did you, because you said

Jeannene:

Oh no, I can't stand all those psychology words.

Kevin:

No, but you said, what did you say? You said, no, that's not a good title. We need something that's really catchy.

Jeannene:

Well It's just very confusing and people often be led by a word or, yeah, I'm really interested in that. And they don't recognize that this is something that occurs all the time.

Kevin:

What did you call it? Projective?

Jeannene:

Identification. I know what it does is this when you project onto somebody else or something else.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

What you don't like about them, but it's really about yourself. So

Kevin:

it's mirroring. Well,

Jeannene:

yeah. Yeah. Something about that. And it came up because

Kevin:

Why? Do you

Jeannene:

want to tell our listeners?

Kevin:

No, I don't remember how it came up.

Jeannene:

You were making some comments about your brother.

Kevin:

Oh, that's right. My dear brother, who's probably listening to this, or will be rather. So I had a dream in which him, uh, early this morning, just before I woke up, I was like, I woke up having had this dream this morning. I don't remember what the dream was about. Oh, yes, I do. I'm not going to talk about that. I don't remember. I don't remember. So, but him and my sister were in it, and in particular, I was thinking about him. And what I said to you was that how brilliant he is at what he does. Yeah. And he doesn't believe that. He doesn't have a bar of it. Maybe, maybe you do now, puppy. I don't know, but he never used to. I think he still doesn't.

Jeannene:

What's that like when you think about him knowing how brilliant he is and not believing in himself?

Kevin:

What's that like? Well, for him?

Jeannene:

No, for you.

Kevin:

Well, you know, that's obviously me looking at him looking at me.

Jeannene:

Yeah, but before you even get to that part, what's it like? What's it like for you? Oh,

Kevin:

when I look at my brother.

Jeannene:

Thinking he's so brilliant. Frustrating! Oh! So

Kevin:

frustrating. Not just me. I see other friends and family members, in particular his two beautiful sons, who I've told you this story, I haven't told everybody this story. He keeps his 35 mil films, you know, when he wasn't digital. And in my memory, he stores them all in a tea chest. I'm pretty sure it was one of those gigantic tea chests, nobody can see this. How else would you describe it? It's like a huge box, basically.

Jeannene:

Yes.

Kevin:

And there's a word for it, I can't remember what it is. Anyway, it's huge. And he just puts all of this stuff in it, or he used to. And it's stuff that he's rejecting.

Jeannene:

I think you were talking about photo reels and

Kevin:

things like that. Yeah, there's all sorts of stuff in

Jeannene:

there.

Kevin:

And, but they're all what he says. They're rejects

Jeannene:

and they're all his work. Yeah. Yeah,

Kevin:

they're all his work. Okay, and done over decades And I used to spilch stuff out of there like there would be black and white prints What are you doing with that? Put it back in there or he chucks stuff in the bin and I just like I'd rush off down the road with it Not literally, but you

Jeannene:

know So frustrated, frustrated.

Kevin:

So his sons

Jeannene:

tried to

Kevin:

get him to open that. And I think his oldest boy, Darwin, was trying to do the same thing and break and enter. But it's just like, that's what he thought of his work, but it was terrible.

Jeannene:

And I'm sitting here and I'm feeling quite smug about myself because I was sitting here listening to this and I have been people for quite a while, Kevin go on about his brother and I'll just say. How much, Kevin, is that about you? And you go, what? What do you mean? So, Kevin, you have how many discs of incredible works that you have of pictures and letters and etc? See, I cringe when you say

Kevin:

incredible work.

Jeannene:

Yeah, see? So, and quite brilliant stuff, people.

Kevin:

Somewhere between 10 and 20 terabytes.

Jeannene:

Which is a lot for those of us who are not computer literate.

Kevin:

Hundreds of thousands, possibly millions. But I take duplicates, quite a few, because a lot of it's digital, but not all. So I'm a bit scammed in

Jeannene:

SLRs. My point being that Kevin would have almost the equivalent of a chest full of his work.

Kevin:

That's what it is. Brilliant work. Yeah. And

Jeannene:

yet wouldn't acknowledge that.

Kevin:

That's correct. Well, until recently. Now I am. I'm doing something with it.

Jeannene:

The point of the story is that it's really easy to criticise others. And not see that sometimes that criticism says something about yourself.

Kevin:

It's a lot of fun sometimes though, isn't it?

Jeannene:

Maybe.

Kevin:

I don't know.

Jeannene:

But it's worth thinking about what is it about this person that really gets under my skin that's actually about me.

Kevin:

Yeah. My brother? About what he does with his photographs? Yeah. Is me being pissed off about what I do with my photographs or, or actually no, it's more than that. It's about what I don't do with My talent

Jeannene:

and not all of it, not recognizing your talent as well, Kevin

Kevin:

belittling myself. And then when I recognize I'm a bit like, you know, being, knowing that I'm really good software developer, telling myself, that's all I can do. I can't draw, I can't take photographs, I can't do any of these other things. I can't see, I can't do any of the other things that I might like to do.

Jeannene:

Which is interesting. Let me just tweak that.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

It's like, oh, I actually haven't got these skills in other areas, but I'm a really good software developer. Hear the way I said that? It can feel very different.

Kevin:

It does feel different, but I'd rather have skills in all those other areas too. I'd rather I acknowledged all of the things that I know I can do.

Jeannene:

Well, true. It's interesting, that's an

Kevin:

interesting way that I put it, I know that I can do.

Jeannene:

Well, so you're denying the other skills that you've got as well, is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. But I just didn't. The way that I spoke about it then was like I acknowledged it. Yeah. But, you know, there's also another part of me which is like, yeah, yeah, you're not very good at those things, but you're good at this.

Jeannene:

So there's a comfort in putting yourself down and other people down.

Kevin:

The thing that I've noticed about criticism is that it's just a distraction about what's going on with me.

Jeannene:

Okay.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Always.

Jeannene:

So,

Kevin:

when people get together and gossip. On the street corners or in halls or in pubs or it's about look at us we're having such a lot of fun because we don't have to look at ourselves and what's going on or what's what's not okay with our lives.

Jeannene:

Okay.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. So would you agree that there's a comfort in that?

Kevin:

I don't know if I'd call it comfort. Again, I suppose so, call it comfort. There's a joy in doing it while you're in the midst of doing it. There's, there's, there's a horrible hangover afterwards.

Jeannene:

Oh, that's a good way of putting it.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. I think sometimes people can use a criticism to join with others and, and it can be. In the moment, an artificial connection, or maybe not artificial, but a connection that maybe doesn't feel as, um, helpful, or you can go away with a bit of a bad taste. Yeah,

Kevin:

absolutely. I think you can go away with an absolutely rotten taste. So I go away just talking to myself about, oh, that wasn't good, I should really go, and then trying to re justify it.

Jeannene:

Yeah. No.

Kevin:

No, it's fine. I'm fine. It's not me. It's everybody else. It's that person. It's that thing. It's that place. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm learning somewhere with this Kevin.

Kevin:

I'm wondering where you were going.

Jeannene:

Yeah. So when I said to you, what do you mean about your brother? Because you're doing exactly the same thing. I am. You had just as many photographs or. Stored information or skills in photographs or writings or whatever. It's even worse

Kevin:

in a way that I haven't really until recently told anyone about.

Jeannene:

Yes, and haven't looked at. So what was it like for me to say to you, You're talking about yourself, Kevin. And you really

Kevin:

need to

Jeannene:

address something. I

Kevin:

didn't have much of a problem with that. Did I?

Jeannene:

Yeah, but what was it like?

Kevin:

Oh, what did it feel like? It didn't just feel like one thing. It feels like relief. It also feels like, ah, I can't complain about that anymore.

Jeannene:

Does stop you in your tracks.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

And I have to, I don't know what the word is. Take some responsibility for that now if I'm going to acknowledge that. Be accountable. Yeah. I've had quite a lot of that recently, having to take responsibility, be accountable, decide to see things as they are, but in a different way. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. For me, thinking about you and your works, I get very excited because you obviously heard me and listened to what I said and valued it. And now you've been going through some of your stuff and working out if it's of value or what you'll do with it from there. So

Kevin:

much of it. Yeah. So yeah, so I am, I'm slowly going through. I've had a bit of a break because I, Uh, but I'm doing it. I bought a new computer and this will tell you a bit about it, you know, my, my old computer, which is, is um, you know, my old MacBook. Has three terabytes internally, let alone all the external stuff. So it's so far taking me two days just to transfer the stuff to my new computer, which has four terabytes.

Jeannene:

For those IT people out there, they're going, wow. But for me, I'm just going, because I don't know what the

Kevin:

numbers are, but they're huge. Billions of bytes.

Jeannene:

Okay.

Kevin:

Um, I could work it out. Do you want me to work it out? No, I'm good. I'm good. It's big. In terms of how many photographs? I don't know. Many millions.

Jeannene:

Okay.

Kevin:

That's

Jeannene:

a few people. Yeah, see, that's what I wanted you to address. And I'm excited about.

Kevin:

Yeah. But also books and stories and programs. You know, I just like Four terabytes, how could anyone ever use it? But I've got the four terabytes in this little machine here, and one, two, three, four external drives as well with God knows how much on there. Okay. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Can we stop? I just want to say g'day to Billy. So Bea, you had an idea how much memory Kevin had and how much he's used that I did not have. Yeah. Okay, alright. You just want me to come on and say yes? Probably. Okay, yes. That's a lot of jerrybites. That's a lot of digital space. I just wanted to have your voice on here so that you're not a mysterious person in the background.

Kevin:

A ghost. I

Jeannene:

was a guest on this podcast. I know but. That was

Kevin:

ages ago. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Do you

Kevin:

know, next month. Lily thinks we've been doing this for a year.

Jeannene:

Oh wow.

Kevin:

I don't know. That's almost as, as amazing as 4, 000 gigabytes.

Jeannene:

Asher! There. See? We actually have a dog. I think they know. I think they know. We talk about her a lot. I love the way she puts her paw up. It's because I got the lead out and she wants to go for a walk. She's been for a walk. I'm going to take her for another one. I'm going to take them both. Alright. Thanks for that Lily.

Kevin:

So now I've completely forgotten where we're going. And here we are again. We're here.

Jeannene:

We're here.

Kevin:

Yep. And we've got no dogs that have gone out. Yeah. Yeah. I've forgotten what we were talking about. Oh yeah. How many photographs? Yeah, I don't know. Since 1975. Actually, that puts it in perspective. It's a long time.

Jeannene:

Yeah. It's a long time.

Kevin:

photographs that I kept since 1975.

Jeannene:

It's a long time to have things stored and not to do anything with them. And look. It's a long time. That might be your choice. That's great, but there was something about what you were saying about your brother that was worth considering for yourself. Yeah,

Kevin:

it's a funny thing. I understand what he was doing now.

Jeannene:

You

Kevin:

know, it's like you take all of these photographs and look at them and then just sort of go, so what? I'll just put them

Jeannene:

there.

Kevin:

I'll just put them to the side.

Jeannene:

Which is fine, but you want to do that with consciousness and

Kevin:

No, I didn't. It was like, yeah, they don't need to see the light of day. I've seen it.

Jeannene:

Yeah, true. They, they don't have to,

Kevin:

but you

Jeannene:

were frustrated with your brother told me something that was going on for you. Yeah, yeah,

Kevin:

yeah. I needed to do something with them and now I'm doing something with them, at least for me.

Jeannene:

Yeah. I've got a different but similar story.

Kevin:

Go on then.

Jeannene:

When Bianca was doing a makeup course. And I remember going in to meet her and I'd been in there a couple of times. One time I went in there to have, uh, my body painted with all the makeup stuff. It was really fun. It was in winter people, but I was very brave. So you were a

Kevin:

model for them.

Jeannene:

I was a model for them, but it wasn't makeup in the face. They were making up all over the body. So it was a really fun day and I had strategic parts covered, but not much. And then the rest,

Kevin:

they

Jeannene:

had fun stuff, putting all this makeup on me. Anyway, it was a great day. But we'd gone another time and there was this lady behind the counter, young, beautiful thing, made up, very well, of course. And I remember thinking, look at you, you're all made up, you're just bubbling there, you're just this bubbling thing of joy. You're so damn annoying. Look at you.

Kevin:

It's a shame that this is just audio. That was good. What,

Jeannene:

you're seeing the venom from my eyes?

Kevin:

Yeah, that's right. I know. Your whole face is in there.

Jeannene:

I know. But what's interesting is I was just like spitting venom at this woman. Internally just going off. Goodness, look at you, you're just so damn beautiful. You think you're beautiful, don't you? And then as I went out and went away and Billy and I, I'm saying Billy, sometimes Bianca,

Kevin:

both begin with B,

Jeannene:

both are, are their names anyway. So we're walking out and I'm going, Oh my goodness. And I started to look at myself and I just went, this is about me. This is about me. I don't put on that makeup and I'm just thinking I can. Why can't I? And I just think I can be bubbly. And I choose not to. What am I doing? So I was projecting all this awful stuff onto this woman. Gorgeous thing she was. And I just thought, if I choose, I can do the same thing. I can choose to be bubbly. I can interact with people. I can put a whole face of makeup on if I want.

Kevin:

So, it wasn't about her, it was about you. I was all about her. So what happens, that's a great, that's a perfect story, because what happens to us if we don't have that awareness? What happens to groups of us if we don't have that? Oh,

Jeannene:

we just shoot all this venom at somebody else.

Kevin:

But does it do stuff? It does, doesn't it?

Jeannene:

I think it does. Over

Kevin:

the weeks, years, months.

Jeannene:

Hell yeah. I mean, think about what was happening, how I would be, just this person of anger and frustration and look at everyone else. I was

Kevin:

just going to say that. You might have walked off down the road and go, yeah, you too, yeah, and you. Yeah.

Jeannene:

And then you don't see the other parts of people because you're not looking at those parts of yourself.

Kevin:

So you're world class. It's narrower and narrower.

Jeannene:

Yeah, I think so. But also, it can stay nasty, where you look at things with, um, that look of, look what they've got and I haven't got that and look at them and they should and they ought to or they'd better do this or if I did it I'd do it better or all of that stuff and I just think it just builds a body of frustration or anger and I don't think that's very healthy or good and I think it lingers.

Kevin:

I can remember my dad and some of our neighbors, mostly the men, but some of the women, and they all say it differently, but the messages that I, particularly my dad, he talked to me about you could do anything you like. It was the one good message that he gave me. You don't need to do what I do. You can do whatever you like. And then I, a message, ask him about what he did, and I'd hear him talking to other people about it, and he hated it. He detested it, and his reason for doing it was like, well, you know, gotta bring in the money and all that. But his reason for not doing anything else, which is what we've been talking about, is because he couldn't see it any other way.

Jeannene:

He

Kevin:

got so far into that he didn't see that there were other options, and so he dismissed them. Oh no, I'm too old, I've, oh, I'm, and he wasn't too old at that point in time, and he was actually talented, is that the right word? I witnessed him do a number of different things, like he could fix watches, and they were all fine. Not digital, then I don't know what you'd call them, but they weren't digital. And he could take them apart and make them work, he understood. He taught himself how to take cars apart and fix them, and all sorts of other things. He was great with his hands. He could make shoes, he could fix your shoes.

Jeannene:

But you were saying that he was so focused on what he couldn't do, or other people perhaps?

Kevin:

He criticised other people. That's what made me remember it. He'd go, oh look at them, they think they're great, kind of thing. So, what

Jeannene:

was it like to be around someone who was like that? Stifling,

Kevin:

is the word that comes up. The bits of him that I loved, was when I could go with him and he was going to go and meet his mate Reg, who was a mechanic, who worked with him, and they were going to start pulling My dad would have got yet another car, and they were going to pull it apart and fix it. And that was fascinating. Sometimes it was boring, I have to admit. But it was like, they took these cars and they understood how to take them apart and make them work. Yeah. My dad understood how to do it. But if you'd have suggested to him, I never heard anybody do it, that he could be a mechanic, there would be a Just a complete verbal stream of reasons why he couldn't possibly do that. And they were all lies. They weren't true.

Jeannene:

But he taught himself that this is the truth. Yeah, he believed

Kevin:

it. He'd narrowed his life down to That particular house, job over the road, and that was it. That was his lot. He couldn't do any more.

Jeannene:

I'm sure our listeners do know people like that. When I think about when I embrace the opposite, let's go back to the woman I saw with the full face of makeup, and the beautiful personality was quite vivacious, if you like, and bubbly and bubbly. When I've started to embrace people like that and go hello, and it's lovely to meet you, and I genuinely mean that, there's something that I offer myself, and I've found that when I'm genuinely with that part of myself and I really embrace those people, then I can embrace those parts of me. And it comes from just really honoring the person, rather than criticizing them and denying myself of those parts of me. And it's a great space to be in, Kevin. And I think about when I'm with perhaps people in my pole dance group, or when I'm around family members, or out in community, wherever we are. And I've been able to really love those parts of meeting people and those vibrant, beautiful parts of people. When I embrace them, I feel so good. It gives back to me. It's this wonderful experience. So I don't want to be critical of others. No, I

Kevin:

agree with that bit, but if, if that woman that you talked about, if she wasn't okay with it, then no.

Jeannene:

Well then and she might not accept it. Let's take it to you and I, Kevin. If I say something lovely about you, which I have done in the past. Never, you've never said anything

Kevin:

nice about me. I

Jeannene:

can't remember anything, peoples! And then I say how brilliant you are and clever. You've never said

Kevin:

that, people.

Jeannene:

And skillful. You've

Kevin:

never said that.

Jeannene:

And I get those sorts of reactions. It ends up shutting me down.

Kevin:

Oh, does it?

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

But I want you to say more.

Jeannene:

Well, it's not allowing it.

Kevin:

Oh, okay. That's interesting, isn't it?

Jeannene:

It is. And it cuts me off.

Kevin:

Maybe that's what I do with others as well.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Because you're quite persistent. I am.

Jeannene:

I don't give up.

Kevin:

No.

Jeannene:

I'm kind of like that terrier.

Kevin:

Which terrier?

Jeannene:

Well, the terrier that grabs hold of you. Oh yeah. And shakes it. Yeah. And that doesn't let go. Yeah. Uh, I've been given that analogy of myself before. Okay. Yeah. But I think, you know, That's true, is if you don't accept my compliments, then you do, you shut down not only parts of yourself, but parts of me.

Kevin:

But eventually I do accept them.

Jeannene:

Yes, you do. Yeah. And I don't give up.

Kevin:

That's a good point, because it can be really difficult to accept compliments, because it's not just like, hey, thanks. It can be, but that's like, boop, it just sort of skips off. You have to think about it,

Jeannene:

you

Kevin:

have to think about it and own it.

Jeannene:

It honours the person who says it. Yeah,

Kevin:

but, I don't know about other people, for me I have to connect with that.

Jeannene:

Yeah, well

Kevin:

yeah,

Jeannene:

in order to do that you need to slow down and respond. Yep. And listen, if that person meant it, then just breathe it in people.

Kevin:

Mmm. That's good, isn't it?

Jeannene:

I know. Yeah, that's good. So, we're talking about criticizing others, but often something's going on for us. That's worthy of listening to. I'm going to get people out there to have a, an experiment, if you like, to notice the next time they notice in themselves, whether they say it out loud to somebody else or whether they say it to themselves inwardly, to notice when they're criticizing somebody else and to think about it, is that criticism actually about themselves? Are they criticizing themselves? Then do they actually need to do that? Or do they need to challenge and make their life a bit different? I'll leave it with you.

Kevin:

And I would take it further saying if it is. Internal criticism. Are you actually doing that? Are you, are you actually also criticizing yourself without realizing that you're doing it at the same time? And also to notice when you actually, I don't know what the word is, when you praise other people because that, then you're praising yourself too. It's the same thing.

Jeannene:

It is.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

It is.

Kevin:

Yeah. I love that. And I've just recently, I remember I was sitting somewhere and there was two, two people talking about mirroring and I, what are you talking about And I'm listening to them. I thought, ah, I see what you're talking about.

Jeannene:

Mm-Hmm. And

Kevin:

one of them was saying, I need someone to mirror me sometimes.

Jeannene:

Mm-Hmm.

Kevin:

You know, so that I can see what's going on with me. Yeah. I get it.

Jeannene:

Well, I think that was kind of the thing I wanted to talk about today. Have you got anything else you wanted to add?

Kevin:

I'm just wondering how many minutes we've done. No, I haven't. You want to stop? Is that what you'll say? I

Jeannene:

think so.

Kevin:

Okay. All right. We'll stop. We're both busy, so that's all you're going to get.

Jeannene:

That wasn't my point. I just meant stopping for the moment. We can come back and add some more.

Kevin:

No, we can't. Okay, maybe. Alright, we're stopping. I'm just going to chat to you while Jean decides about which story to tell to wrap it all up, because she can't decide. So here I am talking to you.

So jealousy. Projection. Oh projection. Okay. Projection. Kevin, tell them this story about your person that, you know, that wrote a book. Yeah, Ellen. So it could have been anybody really that. I know. People that I know. We're doing really well or that's how I see. Yeah. Actually, I don't know. We had a conversation just now and it's been like, I don't know how long is it? Since the late sixties? What's that? Fucking all this 45 years or something. How would I know. I have one brief meeting with Alan. Larry got really pissed off at the end, and I can't remember what anyway. So, I don't know. Last time I saw him. We were. Both typing a lot of drugs, but anyway, he's, Got big PR company and he'd just written this book and it's everywhere. And. And you were telling me about it now I was telling everybody about it actually. Oh, well, not everybody. Yeah. Some people. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's mixed on sort of quite pleased studies. He's done that he wanted to do that, I guess. So. I'm known to, I haven't talked to him about this. I have, we exchanged emails. We exchanged emails sometimes. And he was quite pleased that it was done finished and it was a huge job. That was all he really said about it. Oh, that's wonderful. And that part of the story, I didn't hear. No totally. Yeah. So I didn't finally, I got the book in my hands and I'm reading it and the book seems to be everywhere, There's all this advertising. Well reviews reviews. And it turns out I got quite jealous And then thinking about that. I know other people that I know in that business. Music, business and writing. I stopped I stopped sort of blaming myself. I'm not beating them. I'm alive. I don't want to be them. I just told you that. I don't know this guy. So why would I want to be. So, I guess the thing that I heard was all the jealousy and I was wondering about what you were telling yourself. Yeah. Because it was telling. It's happening out there. It's happening out there and we really can't always know the truth what's happening for anybody else. And yet we will have our opinions on whether their work is good or not, or whether they're doing something as wonderful or not, doesn't matter. Really. It doesn't. so it's about, fading, sorry for myself because of the things that I'd lost. Yeah. Instead of just allowing myself to grieve. You're rather quickie when you're telling me about it. Let's get this book. You said earlier, that's just surface stuff. I know. Uh, what did you say? It's it's an output of a numerous amount of energy. Yeah, which I could use somewhere else. Yeah, cause it's. Exhausting for you. I'm sure. And it's not fun being in that space. I can do the same sort of thing with a past group that I knew on Facebook. And there were a group of friends from Sydney. And. I would be looking at them, having a wonderful time and enjoying themselves in. Fantastic. That's great. Great for them. But the other part of me is going, why wasn't I invited? What about me? What about me? But that's me first books. I did a holiday. Fantastic. But they didn't invite me to do the, how. How dare they. Worst of that. In fact social media servers. Listening to my talking about that. It's not healthy. It's not good for me. that can have a wonderful time and we would want that for other people. But what it tends to do is it tends to. They this area of comparison, where you get projecting onto these people, that they're wonderful and they're fabulous and then made it and everything is glossy and gorgeous. And you're the. Struggle or if you see that with those eyes, that victim part of me just gets embellished. I'm such a victim and I'm doing it really hard. And why can't they be doing it hard like me? Which is just crap. You can. Because why would you want anyone to do it hard? And I, don't want to see myself like that, that. I don't do that. I had of me and I don't want to do that. But it's, easy to get trapped in that way. It is a part of my past. Yeah. So, yeah. So, how have you dealt with that since got cranky? I'm not freezing. Say cranky. Yeah. How I dealt was it was like lucky, not. Really all over the place. It's me going to search for. That's interesting. Just stop looking for it. Yeah. Read the book, put it away. Tell me more. I read it. Yeah. And, that's it. And the story. Fabulous. I have to do anymore. Just get on. What I'm doing. Sometimes, I think it's. The need to grieve for what wasn't and what hasn't been and what isn't. And then that's really settling and soothing for yourself. Seeing grieving as a really positive grounding thing that can, you can do for yourself. And then I do for myself. And then I constantly need to do for myself at times when just get caught in those processes. Yeah. Grieving for the loss of childhood is possible. Yeah, do it. But it's difficult because. I don't know what that would have been. Like for me. I know I do. I mean, then this, I do the projection thing. I actually don't know. Piping is more about now. Yeah. So I was just going to say, yeah, that's right. So. So, what do I do is I parent myself now? Yeah. Yeah, and that's the way to go. Sometimes I don't do a good job of it, but then I guess sometimes period have started to control. It's back to noticing and then yeah. Uh, back to not keeping it a secret. Or whatever it is, you know?

Kevin:

We're not just going to say goodbye?

Jeannene:

Well, we're going to say goodbye. I was trying to think of a way to sum up what we've been talking about. But maybe I don't need to. Yeah, don't be

Kevin:

critical. Oh no, do be critical. It's not don't be critical, it's do be critical. But be aware of being critical. So it's

Jeannene:

not do be critical. Don't be critical people.

Kevin:

Do be critical people. But

Jeannene:

notice when you're critical.

Kevin:

Yes. But you can't do that. You can't, don't be critical and notice when you're critical. Directly opposite.

Jeannene:

So you have to do be critical and then notice when you're critical.

Kevin:

So,

Jeannene:

so you can stop being critical.

Kevin:

Yeah, unless you're never critical, in which case you could just don't listen to this podcast.

Jeannene:

Just carry on.

Kevin:

Absolutely.

Jeannene:

If you've been doing it right, then we need to learn something on it.

Kevin:

Yeah,

Jeannene:

maybe you should make a podcast.

Kevin:

They should come and be on this podcast if they're never critical. So we're also saying everybody's critical. You're making a judgment about everybody else what they're doing. Don't

Jeannene:

judge people, Kevin. Why not? It's not good.

Kevin:

Okay.

Jeannene:

What are you judging them about? That they're not perfect? Are

Kevin:

they

Jeannene:

critical? Oh, is that about you?

Kevin:

So have you got a story yet?

Jeannene:

I think we're good.

Kevin:

We're done.

Jeannene:

I think we're done.

Kevin:

Okay. You sure you don't want to do a story?

Jeannene:

I haven't got a story.

Kevin:

Janine wants to do a story. I've done a story. No, you haven't.

Jeannene:

You can't think of one. Are you projecting that onto me, Kevin? I

Kevin:

was already done. Finished. I'm out of here. I'm in the shopping mall doing shopping for the next couple of days.

Jeannene:

Okay. All right. Well, thanks for listening, people.

Kevin:

Thank you.

Jeannene:

I hope you've enjoyed and Um, this podcast and you'll take something from it. I'm not sure what you take from

Kevin:

it. You don't be critical though, whatever you do.

Jeannene:

Thanks Kevin.

Kevin:

Thanks Janine.

Jeannene:

That's it. I'll catch you next time. I'll catch you next time.

Okay. Bye.

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Jeannene

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Kevin

Host