Inward Journey

Flirting - Episode 30

• Kevin Bergin • Season 1 • Episode 30

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Jeannene:

Hello and welcome to our podcast Inward Journey. You're here with Janine and I'm here with Kevin.

Kevin:

Yes and hello and I'm Kevin and we're both here on One Jewelry Land.

Jeannene:

We are. Thanks, Kevin, for the topic. At first, I panicked about it, remember? Me too,

Kevin:

but I still wanted to do it. I

Jeannene:

know.

Kevin:

Yeah. But I

Jeannene:

absolutely panicked and went, No, we're not talking about that. That's right. You did. And I just went, No

Kevin:

way. No. Get out of here.

Jeannene:

And then as I started to think about it, I went, Oh, this is probably a good topic. I

Kevin:

accepted it. Not, not graciously. Why not? Why not? Why not? Then just as I accepted it, you went, Uh, maybe.

Jeannene:

Today we're going to be talking about Flirting. Well, we're going to have a go at discussing this topic. So we'll see how we go. Kevin, what do you reckon?

Kevin:

Yep. I think that's a really good topic. I'm not sure if I can keep it together and discuss it. I didn't have a really good start. I just kept going. Blah.

Jeannene:

Yep. But we're going to have a go. We're going to see how we go. Welcome people. Yeah. So Kevin, you started bringing up this topic about flirting. Yes.

Kevin:

I remember, I think quite recently, I asked you if you were flirting with me, and you said,

Jeannene:

Well, I think you were, saying that you experienced me flirting with you.

Kevin:

I was looking for some kind of, like some kind of. Roadmap for what flirting is.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Yeah. So

Kevin:

I asked you, because you're a safe person to us.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Which was great.

Kevin:

Imagine I was sitting next to somebody like, when we were having lunch or something and I said, excuse me, I don't even know you. Are you flirting with me? Cause that's the kind of thing I'd want to do,

Jeannene:

but

Kevin:

I wouldn't do it.

Jeannene:

Because you'd want to just find and understand what was happening.

Kevin:

Yes.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. Like the closeness thing.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

So the flirting thing is like. What is it is the some kind of, well, I already said that I'm kind of roadmap and can I sort of see. I'm getting close to it, or they're getting close to it, or you know, yeah,

Jeannene:

because when you asked me, I had this panicked reaction of going, no, are you kidding? No, I was not flirting with you. And yeah. And then I thought, Oh, this is a really good topic to bring up because it's what's your understanding of flirting. And I noticed that, there's been an earlier time for me when I've been accused of flirting and ah, it was a fascinating story. We'd gone out. I think I'll tell the listeners,

Kevin:

I'm just getting comfortable,

Jeannene:

okay. We'd gone out with some friends and. It was maybe 15 years ago, and we'd gone out with friends and the waiter was coming on and I was starting to feel more myself and being more lively and, um, more extroverted, which hasn't been my safe place to be. So I was learning more about myself. And so the way to it come along and I was saying cheeky comments about the coffee and, Oh, is this good enough? And laughing. The four of us were all flirting. Well, this is interesting because having fun. With, the waiter and then the couple that I was with said that I was flirting and I went, what? And for me, when I hear that term, I understand it as, having a sexual nature to it, that, there's a hope of, a shared, sexuality or something of that nature.

Kevin:

But it could just be fun.

Jeannene:

Well, I experienced it as fun, but what happened because I'd been told I was flirting and they thought it was quite funny and I got the impression a bit silly, here you are as a older person flirting with the waiter. What happened is I backed off and I became more introverted and for women, there's almost this if I am my flamboyant or excited or sensual self, then I'll be taken the wrong way and so I can't be with those parts of myself when I'm out and about, which is garbage. And yes, and I think that I need to be as warm and as friendly and as loving as I want to be if someone takes me the wrong way, if they see or understand me as flirting, that is wanting some other sexual favor or something from the interaction, then that's on them, not on me.

Kevin:

But, but, but, I've got my hand up here, but, but, but, I distinctly remember a conversation years ago, you and I had it in a session where you said, I can't remember the exact words, that flirting was okay.

Jeannene:

I think it is.

Kevin:

Yeah. But then I can't remember the context around that. So yeah. So what's

Jeannene:

your understanding? The theory is

Kevin:

that flirting was okay.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

And that it could be fun, or it could be something more serious, more sexual.

Jeannene:

Yeah, that's true.

Kevin:

Could be both of those things.

Jeannene:

Yeah, so what's your understanding of flirting then?

Kevin:

Today? I just described it brilliantly, I got absolutely no idea. Ha ha ha ha ha! Particularly, no, I've got no idea. I was just going to say particularly when it's with, people I don't know, but I can think of a couple of women that I do know and still unclear about. I'm not clear about me. I'll flirt. Okay. Particularly with those women.

Jeannene:

What's your intention when you understand yourself as being flirtatious? But then

Kevin:

I'm not, having said that, I think about it and I think, uh, So maybe it's not flirting, I'll just be outgoing, which I'm not normally.

Jeannene:

Okay, so, but what's your intention if you're being flirtatious?

Kevin:

My intention is, uh,

Jeannene:

Have you got one?

Kevin:

Yes, yes, yes, I was getting there.

Jeannene:

I was

Kevin:

getting there, people, I was just thinking. So, my intention is to find out It's two possible intentions. One is just to have some fun. And I do that a lot. The other one is totally different, which is, It's manipulative I guess. It's just to find out if there's anything else there for them. And for me as well. If there's a possibility of more.

Jeannene:

Okay.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

So, both of those feel Lovely. Appropriate. Wonderful. If I were to be flirtatious with you, then how would you know if I'm being my outward self that's being more extroverted and having fun? Or if I've got that other intention as well. I wouldn't have a

Kevin:

clue.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

But, it's me and you, so I'd ask.

Jeannene:

Yeah, that's easy. That's right.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah,

Kevin:

but it's not easy when you're sitting in a restaurant or some other kind of social setting, and you're not so much knowing the person or know them, but that sort of thing hasn't happened between you.

Jeannene:

Yeah, it's interesting because as we're talking about this, I'm starting to get a bit confused

Kevin:

because if we might influence,

Jeannene:

well, no, we're unpacking a term and like any term, if you think about it or a label, what ends up happening is It's your understanding of the label that's the important thing. So whether I'm being my outward, vivacious self, and we're chatting, Kevin, Then that's wonderful. And you might call it flirting. I might not call it or I might call it flirting and you might not call it that.

Kevin:

Yeah,

Jeannene:

it's what's important is that we are clear around the intentions between us that it's non sexual. If I'm talking about our relationship.

Kevin:

I agree with all of that.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. Because I was thinking, if I looked up the meaning of flirting on my little phone here, then I may well not agree with it at all because it wouldn't apply to me.

Jeannene:

Well, Isn't that the reality of every label or every terminology that we use for ourselves, for our behavior. It's more about what's relevant to you. And again, you can't always know what's happening with someone's intentions. You can know what's happening with yours.

Kevin:

I'm laughing because I think of recently, recently being months ago, being just sort of like asking a woman outright. So where are we here, you know, what, what would you like to do? This is what I would like and just sort of getting no response at all. Okay. Like zip.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Nothing. Cause you just walk away going, yeah, I'm not even bothered asking. There's nothing there for me. Not that there's nothing there for me. There's nothing there for me to work out what it is that we're doing next.

Jeannene:

Well, you did your best to be clear.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

And if the person can't give you what you're wanting or chooses not to let you know, there's nothing more you can do around it. And I think what's lovely about our relationship and the closeness is if you're confused about an interaction, or if I'm confused about an interaction, we'll check.

Kevin:

Yeah, I can do that with you, I can do that with a couple of other people, but, then, all of them I've known for a long, long, long time.

Jeannene:

Yeah. So if a relationship was to be fun and flirtatious, then when would you be concerned about it?

Kevin:

I wouldn't. Well, if it was fun. Then that's enough because if it's going to be any more than that It'll progress. See I said that without any hesitation at all. The other way is really hard work Oh, I'd really like to have a relationship with this woman, so how the hell do I make it happen? I can't The answer is I can't.

Jeannene:

No, no

Kevin:

You

Jeannene:

can't make Anybody know be attracted to

Kevin:

you sometimes

Jeannene:

or they may be attracted to be a boy that they want a relationship with you. That's a different thing as well.

Kevin:

But going from the other way, having fun with somebody, that's great because if it's going to go any further than it will, it's not then it's okay as it is.

Jeannene:

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah,

Kevin:

yeah, that's good. Oh,

Jeannene:

I know how this eventuated. I

Kevin:

eventuated it. Is that the right grammar? I don't know.

Jeannene:

Uh, yeah. I'm an

Kevin:

eventuator. There you go. We've made another word up.

Jeannene:

Oh, is that like an influencer, but an eventuator?

Kevin:

Eventuator. There you go, folks. You can be an eventuator. No idea what that is.

Jeannene:

But it might be the next thing that happens on Instagram. Oh, Kevin, the eventuator. I feel like it needs a cape. It

Kevin:

needs a costume.

Jeannene:

Doesn't it? I think that if we're talking about particular couples or,

Kevin:

Couples don't need to flirt.

Jeannene:

Or relationships. Why not? Because they're a couple. Come on. No, that's not true. You're being cheeky, I'm pushing. Yeah. Yeah. If it's, an agreement with the couple or an understanding that they share the parts of themselves with other people. and that may or may not be their, sexual relationship, depending on whether their relationship is open or closed then that's agreement between the couple and it doesn't matter. it's more on that relationship and what's their understanding with each other. And sometimes it takes a while to work that stuff out, one conversation doesn't cut it, they might need a couple.

Kevin:

Yeah, I've just realised that my teacher in all of these things was not surprisingly my dad. I never ever saw him be in any way flirtatious with my mother, can't blame him, but where he worked. Um, I guess, now I don't know if he was being flirtatious, I think he was, I think he was flirting with, he used to have a lot of these Italian women working for him, and they all worked together, and whenever he came anywhere near them, he was, oh that's me, so it's probably me, his whole character changed, and became flirtatious I think, and so did they. Maybe. One or more of them would. Yeah.

Jeannene:

When you say flirtatious Again, did you think that it was a sexual nature, or was he just having fun and feeling? It

Kevin:

could have been either of those things. I was very young.

Jeannene:

Not so much feeling, but being alive with different personalities.

Kevin:

Could have been that.

Jeannene:

Because some people just don't share that flirtatious fun in their current relationships, and they go and have it elsewhere. I swear.

Kevin:

Yeah, no kidding. I can think of loads of people that do.

Jeannene:

Oops. You're going to get in trouble for saying that. I

Kevin:

am. I'm not sure from who, but I will.

Jeannene:

You reminded me of, a show that we've been watching and there's one part of it. I won't talk about the show, but there's one part of it.

Kevin:

Oh, I know which show.

Jeannene:

Yep, where the man comes and he is having many relationships with women and many infidelities sadly. With agreed relationships to be, monogamous with his wife. Couple relationship anyway. Yep. What ends up happening is he goes back to his former partner and they have a closeness through, a difficult situation. And then when they share a moment, he goes to kiss her and she, she stops him. Yeah. But what's What's important about that in terms of learning is some people see closeness or they see relationships as everything is sexual. And so that they almost focus or view the world through that lens of this is sexual. And I guess that's why I struggled with your term when you asked me, are you flirting?

Kevin:

I wanted a rope, mate. It's like, yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. So

Kevin:

I was thinking you were.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

And I just wanted to check. Yeah.

Jeannene:

And what's scary for me is I've had friendly relationships where people have made passes at me or violated my space sexually. And then. Have said or understood that I was wanting more, but they didn't check that out with me in any way. Yeah. They just assumed that my warmth or my friendly nature was saying something more and that wasn't checked out. And so the risk for me is to not be friendly, be closed and back off from people and not explore those parts of myself or. Be vivacious or whatever I need to do. And then that's really up to them, which really needs to be if they're wanting something different or they need to check it out. That's really on that person. Does that make sense?

Kevin:

Yeah, it makes sense. I can only talk about me. So really. It's impossible to tell what other people are doing or want and, um, unless you ask.

Jeannene:

Yep.

Kevin:

And that's, might not always be comfortable or possible, but it's not impossible, to know how I'm feeling about it.

Jeannene:

That's right.

Kevin:

So yeah.

Jeannene:

And you can't assume.

Kevin:

No, and I just realized talking about it here and now that, I'm not really comfortable when it's already serious. You know, there's nothing much between, I don't know. So, internet dating. Yeah. And you get to talk to somebody and you might get to meet them. Yeah. And you're supposed to do what? I don't know. But you're not having any fun and you're probably not. It's all really, really serious. And so it's really hard to move from there to doing something, I guess the thing you would do is spend some time together, but often that's not what happens. Often there's like a, Oh, you don't suit me, go away. But how would you know? How would I know?

Jeannene:

You don't know. You don't know. Yeah.

Kevin:

So I'm not being very clear, am I? Yeah. Yeah.

Jeannene:

You know what I've realized as we're talking about this? The most important thing that's. that each of us need to know is what kind of lens are you viewing your relationships in? Like, if I'm viewing my relationships in a lens of perhaps sexual, maybe I'm looking for a partner, then I'm going to be Perhaps I'm going to be looking for that, or if, my current relationship is not going as well, then part of me might be looking for something different, something different. fun or something that compensates what's not happening in my current relationship. And so I need to be aware of what's happening for me. We all need to be aware of what's happening for us and how we look in the world. So I know that at times, I hope this is okay, just trying to make sense of it is that at times you were looking at relationships in terms of. Hoping and wanting a love relationship. And so that was the lens that you looked at a lot of relationships and a lot of your choice of women that you wanted the relationship with. And so that would be the lens that you looked through. I'm thinking now that lens has changed somewhat, hasn't it?

Kevin:

in working with you, I, I, I was introduced to this thing, V. I. T. P. Yes. Very important, oh, transitional

Jeannene:

Person.

Kevin:

Person, yeah. Yeah. So, that gave me some freedom, I can meet somebody and have some fun and It may or may not go anywhere. There may or may not be a sexual element to it.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

And, see how it goes. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeannene:

So, that VITP, I didn't make that up. Somebody else had talked with me about it. And, I loved it so much. It's really good. Yeah. And what it does is it takes the pressure off you and it takes the pressure off a potential relationship. Yeah. So it sees somebody as, they might be the one, or one of the ones, depending if you have multiple relationships. But what happens is. If you see them as they might be that VIP, that very important transitional person, then that helps you to value the relationship, but not put all this pressure on yourself or on them.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

And I think that, lots of close, safe relationships can be born out of that and some safe experimentation of what it's like to be close or what it's like to reveal. Some of yourself with them. If you're not used to talking about your story, perhaps I'm talking about your past or your family or, your wants and all of those sorts of things. So, for people out there, they may or may not know I've been in my long term relationship for a very long time now. And I feel very fortunate because we have all those conversations. So we're clear about what we want from the relationship, what we want from each other and how we are with others.

Kevin:

Yep. Was going to

Jeannene:

tell you a secret.

Kevin:

You tell me a secret. Cool.

Jeannene:

So, you know how we went out to lunch the other day? To lunch.

Kevin:

And we can't talk about lunch. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. so Greg said to me after it, he said, Ah, I noticed this woman was looking at you. And they were, what did he say, it was like they were checking you out, when you were at the restaurant and, he said, I noticed them and they were looking you up and down and going, wow, kind of, he had that expression on the face and I thought that was really lovely for him to share that with me.

Kevin:

Yeah, that's cool.

Jeannene:

Isn't it cool?

Kevin:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. And they're not for a person of my age. Oh, that sounds awful. I'm I'm gonna cut that out.

Kevin:

Can you take that back? Yeah. But

Jeannene:

also to know that. love relationships can have those elements in it where

Kevin:

there is some fun

Jeannene:

and respect that other people may admire you or partner. and also that they might, be flirtatious, but also that they might even, Oh, what's the word I'm looking for? More than admire, I've gone blank.

Kevin:

See, that's what happened to me. So I'm just remembering that if I'm walking around, I don't know where, I'm walking down the street, in a shop, in a supermarket, and I see a woman looking at me, I'll be going, what's wrong with me? Did my trousers fall off? Is my zip undone? And then just occasionally I'll catch some woman looking at me. Wow, she's checking me out. That's really good. No more than that. That's fine.

Jeannene:

Yeah,

Kevin:

but it's a really, really nice. I really like that. And I was, I forgot about earlier was in my early recovery, I guess it still happens in narcotics and numbers with the men, but not just with the men. It's, it's quite often conversations like, yeah, well, she smiled at me. So I guess we're going to get married. It's just that, if somebody takes any notice of you at all, and that's understandable because me and a lot of others have been starved of, that attention, that attention and that potential, I don't know, love, I guess, yeah, and

Jeannene:

closeness and connection, the

Kevin:

closeness, that's right, the closeness,

Jeannene:

yeah. And if you'd seen closeness as in, Then it needs to be a love relationship. There's, that's how your lens gets affected.

Kevin:

That

Jeannene:

person smiled at me, therefore.

Kevin:

Therefore, that's right. You don't need to say any more. It means something because I posed too, but I was just saying, that woman is definitely checking me out, and boy does that feel good, and I wonder how much the carrots are today. You know, it's just, yeah. That just being part of your day.

Jeannene:

So even that story tells me that your lens has changed because if you notice someone's checking you out, just. Experiencing that as lovely and as a boost, if you like, and then getting on with your day. I don't

Kevin:

have to chase them down the road. No. Ask them how, they're doing and blah, blah, blah. And

Jeannene:

can we go out or why don't you want to go out with me?

Kevin:

I saw you looking at me. You must want to marry me!

Jeannene:

And if not, why not? Yes! Oh my goodness, I could just imagine Yel just yelling all over them. Yeah,

Kevin:

he would.

Jeannene:

Oh my goodness. Or he

Kevin:

would have. Yeah. he would anymore.

Jeannene:

No, I don't think so at all. No,

Kevin:

yeah.

Jeannene:

Hmm.

Kevin:

Hey! You'll do.

Jeannene:

That's not very nice.

Kevin:

There was a lot of that though.

Jeannene:

So,

Kevin:

hey, you noticed me. I'll get to know you and, uh, now we should have a relationship. And I might not even want that relationship.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

That's true. And it's interesting because I'm thinking about myself as a woman and a lot of us are very trained to, be aware of how we look and make sure that we look nice for everybody. And particularly for the men in our life. What can happen as a part of that? I've just lost my train of thought.

Kevin:

Again! That's a train of thought losing day. Oh

Jeannene:

my goodness, what am I going to do with that?

Kevin:

Actually, I can tell you something about how, because I'm fasting.

Jeannene:

Oh, no, I've got it now.

Kevin:

Okay, go for it. I

Jeannene:

remember. Yeah. So, oh, Asher just looked at us like, what?

Kevin:

What's going on here?

Jeannene:

Our usual frivolity. Is that the word? Yes.

Kevin:

So, our third podcaster is here. Just about to come over and check out what's going on. Nothing going on.

Jeannene:

No, I think that often women can be trained Making sure that we are well groomed and look good and have taken that extra care for ourselves and for the attention. And yet honestly, and often we don't want the attention. We're just comfortable with being who we are, but unconsciously we've been so trained to get or demand the attention or make sure that we're looking a particular way. And so one of the things I know that I've been doing lately is it's weird. I'm doing the opposite. I've been wearing makeup on occasions because I want to do it for me because there's been a lot of times I haven't been, spending the time being well dressed or dressed up or spending the time having fun with makeup because that attention has been uncomfortable and it's been negative towards me in terms of. My growing up. And so for me, even at this age, that older persons, I'm really having fun with allowing myself to be as dressed up as I want.

Kevin:

Yep. Yep.

Jeannene:

For some people, it's going to be the opposite. So, Flirtation. How have we addressed it, Kevin?

Kevin:

I don't know. I think we already did. I think we, did for us. Yeah. I'm not sure about everybody else out there. I'm sure that for me if I'm having fun then that's enough. Yeah. And if the other person wants to flirt, then it has to be more than me thinking that that's what's going on. Yeah. So, yeah, I can't decide. That's, yeah. Yeah. The road map is, you don't know until you know.

Jeannene:

Yeah. And, again, I suppose not assume and, start to be self aware in terms of, of How do you look at the world? Yeah. And, you know, it might be even worth at that point, really, people starting to discover how they are close to people, how they see closeness, and, uh,

Kevin:

Terrifying.

Jeannene:

Okay.

Kevin:

Used to be terrifying. I've just been writing a lot about closeness. Yeah. Yeah. You know, a book, which you can buy soon.

Jeannene:

Oh, no, you can't.

Kevin:

Close. What, six months down the track, maybe?

Jeannene:

Yeah, that's a bit

Kevin:

No, six to eight months down the track.

Jeannene:

Here I have to put up with people.

Kevin:

That's not yell, though. We're going to finish this book and get it published.

Jeannene:

In six months.

Kevin:

Six to eight months.

Jeannene:

Thanks for the extra three. Two, two.

Kevin:

I was with a friend last night and we were doing some stuff together and we were in a fish and chip place, a really nice one, we're eating at the back, and it's late at night, and, about 8, 9 o'clock, not late at night, but anyway, it was for us, and, I was telling him about my fasting, my intermittent fasting, and he said, so how's it going, and I said, well, I'm losing a lot of weight, which is great, but I don't seem to be losing it off my belly. And he said, yeah, I'll probably be the last to go. I said, but, okay. I said, but here's a really, really good thing. I have these jeans and trousers, but most are jeans. And the ones that now fit me reasonably fit me comfortably would be 34 waist. And the ones that used to fit me not so long ago, The 32 waist and the ones I used to wear all the time before I put on weight were 30 and 31. So you said Yeah. Now still tight, but I can get into the 32 ones without it being uncomfortable. So good. It's so, so good. That's enough dressing up for me.

Jeannene:

I think it's all about how comfortable you feel. Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. So, so these jeans I've got on, I don't know where I got them from, but they're 32 and I can feel they're tight, but they're not uncomfortable. It's great.

Jeannene:

Uh, I hope that we've started. The conversations that you can now have with other people, or perhaps you will start having the conversations with yourself, or start thinking about yourself in different ways, or your relationships?

Kevin:

Yeah, I, at the end here, you mentioned, it's what we haven't throughout, it's about closeness.

Jeannene:

Yeah. As

Kevin:

well, isn't it?

Jeannene:

Yeah, it is.

Kevin:

But we won't go into it, because that's another podcast.

Jeannene:

Well, we have talked about closeness in the past. Have

Kevin:

we?

Jeannene:

But as you will notice with all of these topics, my intention is that they can encourage many conversations around these topics, because sometimes we're just touching, mid tip of a topic. But hopefully it can be the place to have, more fuller conversations, and be in touch with your own self and who you are as a person. And

Kevin:

buy a book.

Jeannene:

Oh my goodness. Ha And be close to other relationships. Or choose not to be close to other relationships or those people that badger you.

Kevin:

Not saying

Jeannene:

any people, any current company.

Kevin:

Signed copies. Special editions. Okay. Okay. It was great. I really enjoyed this. I was glaring at him then. Yeah. I really wanted to do this. I'm glad we did this one.

Jeannene:

Thanks, Kevin, for the topic. At first, I panicked about it, remember? Me too,

Kevin:

but I still wanted to do it. I

Jeannene:

know.

Kevin:

Yeah. But I

Jeannene:

absolutely panicked and went, No, we're not talking about that. That's right. You did. And I just went, No

Kevin:

way. No. Get out of here.

Jeannene:

And then as I started to think about it, I went, Oh, this is probably a good topic. I

Kevin:

accepted it. Not, not graciously. Why not? Why not? Why not? Then just as I accepted it, you went, Uh, maybe.

Jeannene:

Which is interesting because if you're thinking about bringing up some, something or a topic with your partner or your family or your friends. Just bring it up at first, slowly and gently, and their first reaction might be not their complete reaction or the one that they're going to settle with in the first place.

Kevin:

So it's not do something like, yeah, we're going to talk about this. No, not quite like

Jeannene:

that. That wouldn't have been helpful.

Kevin:

No.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Actually, if you'd done that, I might've rebelled and gone, no, what? you wouldn't have done that.

Kevin:

No, I would have, but not recently. All right.

Jeannene:

Thanks for listening as usual.

Kevin:

And that was a much longer goodbye. Did you notice that? I know

Jeannene:

that wasn't bad. Thanks for that.

Kevin:

Thanks for listening.

Jeannene:

We'll catch you on the flip side.

Kevin:

Privileged talking to you. Bye bye.

Jeannene:

Go well

People on this episode

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Jeannene

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Kevin

Host