Inward Journey

What People Say - Episode 29

• Kevin Bergin • Season 1 • Episode 29

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Jeannene:

Today's podcast will be recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation.

Kevin:

And we acknowledge elders past and present, as well as emerging. That's right. And what you said was, what did you say? It says shut up.

Jeannene:

It says shut up. That's right. Get back in your shell. I don't want to hear the things that aren't positive. I want to hear the things that are. Good and fluffy and wonderful and Perhaps on the surface and glossy. Oh, they want the Facebook picture. Oh,

Kevin:

just of course I thought of that. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Hello and welcome to the podcast. You're here with Janine. I'm here today.

Kevin:

And Kevin. I'm also here today.

Jeannene:

Yes,

Kevin:

and we're talking about

Jeannene:

the things that people say this podcast came out of the other one that we've done previously, which was Quite a heavy topic actually when we started to go through it and when I edited it I wasn't gonna post it and I didn't want you to publish it. I just thought this is Too much. I've said too much I wasn't clear enough about it, or I didn't come across the way I wanted. And I think what happened is I just was so vulnerable in it, and I lost all my words. And I'm doing it again. Because it was such a heavy topic. And so then I started to think about no, I actually really want to post it because I wanted to say that This podcast is part of how we are in life. It's a conversation. Hmm. And one of the things I love about you and I, Kevin, is that we have conversations that flip things on its head and when I'm thinking a particular way about something, I can change my thinking about it when I have a conversation with you.

Kevin:

And we did that in the last podcast, but it was incredibly difficult.

Jeannene:

It was really difficult.

Kevin:

And I understand you're not wanting to publish it.

Jeannene:

Yeah, how was it for you looking back because I got I made you listen to it again

Kevin:

Did you make me listen to where you asked me to listen to it again? That's true. I did listen to it again, but I listened to it again with different heroes I listened to it with the message that you sent me this morning, which was I'm not sure about this one, could you listen to it? So I did, and I realised how difficult a topic it was that we'd chosen. I don't think I've heard anybody else talk about it like that.

Jeannene:

Maybe.

Kevin:

So.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

And where it brought me, or what the topic is today, is the things people say when you're upset. Yeah, like. So, they say things like, You'll be alright. You'll be alright. You're not a bad person. You're a nice person. You're a nice person. You're in, this incredible experience of pain and trauma and they're saying you're a nice person. Fuck off, I know that. That doesn't stop my experience of being in pain in this body, in this moment, about what happened back then.

Kevin:

Yeah, I remember when I told a friend that my dad had died. It was my ex actually, and I was standing inside a kitchen and she just walked into the room and I was telling, after telling her that my dad had died, she just walked up to me and grabbed hold of me, she didn't say a word. Yeah, that's kind of the opposite, isn't it? It is. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Sounds lovely. Yeah, it

Kevin:

was.

Jeannene:

She sounded very sensitive

Kevin:

to you. She was. So she didn't try and fix me or feel anything, Kim. She just held me.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. Which is good. Yeah. Yeah. We've got a lot of things written down here, but I can't see them from either here.

Jeannene:

So we do have those lovely experiences and I certainly have those, but I'm held and hugged. Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeannene:

However, there's lots of those experiences where they just say to you, be positive. Yeah. Be positive. Fuck all that. Do you know, do you know what positive means? Oh, you said earlier. Go on. I can't remember. You said fuck off. It means don't talk about this. I'm not ready to hear it. Oh, that's what you said. It'll touch my own pain and I haven't worked that hard. Thanks very much. Yeah. Thank you. And I don't want to say yours. That's right. And what you said was, what is he said? It says, shut up, shut up. That's right. Get back in your shell. I don't want to hear the things that aren't positive. I want to hear the things that are. Good, and fluffy, and wonderful, and Ha ha ha ha ha! Perhaps, on the surface, and glossy! Ah,

Kevin:

they want

Jeannene:

the Facebook picture. I was

Kevin:

just, of course I thought of that, yeah. Ha

Jeannene:

ha ha ha! There is such a thing as toxic positivity, where it basically dismisses everything you're actually feeling. So it's like, don't be like that! Get over it. Yeah, yeah. Move on. Yeah. Keep going. Yeah. Blah. Blah. It makes me feel awful. Let's just stop this while we're on. What happened to you today? I guess I got, I guess I interpreted what people might say about our previous podcast and also the state that I've been in recently where I've been in somewhat materi state and been with some of that pain. Yeah. And I'm just. predicted what people might say. And I think that our listeners out there might identify with the things that sometimes good, well meaning people want to respond to you in nice ways. Yeah. But they don't do it well. No. They're hopeless. Actually. In terms of holding your feelings, listening to, listening, it's one of the basic skills that very few people have. Yeah. Yeah. I'm being very harsh people, but I'm having fun.

Kevin:

Yeah. Yeah. Harsh fun.

Jeannene:

Oh God. Did we just justify heart cruelty or?

Kevin:

Possibly. I'm just grabbing this.

Jeannene:

Oh yeah,

Kevin:

I like this one. He's in one of his moods again.

Jeannene:

Do you get that?

Kevin:

Yes.

Jeannene:

What happens for you when someone says that?

Kevin:

Actually, last time it happened, I thought about it first. Yeah, I wasn't feeling too good. It's, it's really dismissive, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, he's in one of his moods again. And it wasn't the person who said it so much. It's the echo back through my life. And I'm, yeah, you know, heard that so often. Yeah. Like, it wouldn't be those words. It would be, oh, that's Kevin. Yeah, and I just go, uh, come over here while I strangle you, and yeah, it's just so dismissive. It is. Yeah. It is. And I don't like it.

Jeannene:

And one of those moods, if they're saying that to you, it's like they put you in a category that you're untouchable, that they're not going to listen to you and they've put a lovely label on you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the other ones, they're all similar, aren't they?

Kevin:

So you're talking to somebody about, I don't know, whatever, telling them about, you said earlier, telling them about something that bothers you or is painful, or you could just go for a walk. There's nothing wrong with going for a walk, but that wasn't what you were doing with them. You'd come to them to talk to them or be with them or, and you weren't looking to be fixed.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

That's

Jeannene:

what it is. It's the fixer thing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Fixer upperer. What often happens is people say, have you seen somebody about this? Have you gone to talk to somebody? Maybe you need to talk to somebody. Have you seen a professional? But that could be a good

Kevin:

thing.

Jeannene:

It depends, doesn't it? Oh, that's right. I am one of those. But it's just that it doesn't have to be the first thing, because there are actually And I'm actually talking to you now.

Kevin:

Yes.

Jeannene:

So let's be here now. You know, the whole thing about mindfulness that I get slightly pissed off about that thing around mindfulness is that that means about being in this moment. So that means hearing me.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

in this moment with what's going on with me. And I might be a happy mess. A happy mess. I might be happily importantly messy. And so therefore this is what has to happen in the moment. And so I wouldn't mind if you people out there, Oh, who am I speaking to? For those people responding to me. Just to be with my mess, in this moment, and not to move it on, before, before it gets to be expressed.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

Can you relate, Kevin? I

Kevin:

can relate. I'm going to stop laughing. Yeah, so, but. But? What pisses you off about mindfulness?

Jeannene:

Oh, we've had this conversation before. It's because it's like anything. The psychologists have come up with this term and yet you nearly spat your coffee. I think we'll need to take a break while Kevin just recovers the tablecloth, the computer, and his jeans because he spat coffee all over. It's all fine. It's fine. You can't get it. Controlled. I don't even know where I was going.

Kevin:

Yeah, but, but the psychologists come up with another term. Oh, they've come up with this

Jeannene:

term around mindfulness again, which is a fabulous thing.

Kevin:

Yep.

Jeannene:

However, People have been doing this in centuries, which is just around stopping and being in the moment around noticing and about valuing what's happening with your body. And to think that they've coined this, they've certainly coined the term, but they've coined this way of being when for centuries and different cultures are on it way before they've had the goods. Yeah, it's kind of. That's not all psychologists.

Kevin:

No. Sorry

Jeannene:

friends.

Kevin:

No, but you're right about the channel. I remember when I heard Somebody, not in the IT industry, first used the word networking. And I went, what? Because it was a term coined inside IT, as far as I know. You can correct me if I'm wrong, everybody. But as far as I knew it was. And then suddenly it's being used for something else. And, as you said, claimed for something else as well. And, yeah, it wasn't used. Just, blech, it was It was an IT thing.

Jeannene:

I think what's happening here is we're saying our disgust for labels.

Kevin:

Oh, that's true, we are, aren't we?

Jeannene:

They have their place, people.

Kevin:

Yeah,

Jeannene:

it

Kevin:

is. Other things we're reading out, that's what we're saying, yeah.

Jeannene:

Well, if they take away from the moment, and if they just label you as the difficult one, or, oh, she's going through that, or that time of the month, oh, it's that time of

Kevin:

the month. Oh, that's just Kevin. Oh, one of them, one of them, one of their moods.

Jeannene:

Yuck! What it doesn't do, it doesn't be with the person in the moment. Hmm.

Kevin:

And my, my, my friend called Yell has a lot to think about and say about things like that, but you know, I don't let him out to say things about that often, but you know, he'd be like, Hey! I didn't come here for

Jeannene:

that! What did Yale really want?

Kevin:

Listen.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah, just listen. Yeah. It's as simple as that really, isn't it? I think what

Jeannene:

happens is people go to this fix it place and we've got to make it all better and oh shit this is happening in front of me and what can I do? Well, It goes back to our podcast around being powerless. It's really important sitting beside someone and being powerless. But in doing that, you're connecting with him and you're joining with them in that place of the things that you both can't fix. You can't change the past, but we can be with it to recover the now. And so, I'm going to have to, people,

Kevin:

I'm going

Jeannene:

to have to be with my pain and whether you choose to be with me is on you. Does that make sense?

Kevin:

Yeah, I'm just thinking about it in terms of me, relationships. Yeah. I think I'm guilty of sometimes looking past that too. Somebody tells me.

Jeannene:

I think sometimes when we've been talking and I've gotten teary, you've gone into a story or it's been difficult for you to be within the moment. And so you've told me a story that you're related to. And if I didn't know you better, I might think that you're trying to do that one upmanship, but you certainly have not been, and I don't experience that in you, but some people do that. You know how they do that, um, Oh, you think that's painful? Yes. Let me tell you a

Kevin:

story. That's right. So they might have sort of just said, Oh, that's nothing.

Jeannene:

That's right. Just

Kevin:

leave it at that. Yeah. Yeah. That's bullshit. That's

Jeannene:

what that is. And don't we love that, people? Ha ha. Ha ha. Ha ha. Ha ha.

Music:

I'm beginning

Jeannene:

to,

Kevin:

I'm

Jeannene:

beginning to ask, are we, are we whingeing? No, we're nah, we're naming some of the things that we've possibly said ourselves to others. We're really defining it in terms of sometimes the need or want to fix it. Um, Or rescue the person. And often that can come from a place of deeply caring. But we're also saying what actually needs to occur in the moment. But there's so many things that people say. People think, say things like, It's not that bad. Fuck that, it's, it's as bad as it is.

Kevin:

And

Jeannene:

that's the comparison thing again.

Kevin:

Yeah. So it's, that's sort of, but maybe I'll feel differently about it later or tomorrow and maybe it will actually change. So there's two different things there. There's the inner thing about how I feel about it. And there's the external thing, but I don't need somebody else to tell me it's not that bad.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

So again, it's like, where are you? I just came to talk

Jeannene:

to you about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because in the sharing of the story, what actually happens is it shifts the space that I'm in. If I speak personally about it, if I share something that's painful and I think about sometimes when I will have chatted to my cousin about some things of the past and, and that's been a lovely experience and I feel very connected to her. And then what happens for me is that part of me settles because somebody's either identified with or understood or been able to listen. And then there's something that happens in the connection that is soothing and therefore my body soothes and there's some other theoretical things that actually happen that I don't need to name. It's a wonderful thing that can happen when you just listened to That feels really settling.

Kevin:

Yeah. And I, I, that made me think of something else. About being listened to and being safe. So when I'm sitting in a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, and there could be like a few people there, or it might be a hundred people there. And often it's a circle, so it's quite confronting because it's a circle, and you're asked to speak. I would normally, most, most often, I would feel safe in that situation, so, I'm able to do what you just said, I'm able to actually say what I need to say, and, and, however that's being received doesn't really matter to me. I know that people will relate, some of them, and they'll be listening.

Jeannene:

And

Kevin:

that's enough. And they don't get the opportunity, even after I've finished, to say, Oh, that's not so bad, Kevin.

Jeannene:

Or

Kevin:

anything like that.

Jeannene:

And

Kevin:

there is no opportunity there. For them to be the fixer or anything like that.

Jeannene:

Okay, so it provides that Space so that that can't happen.

Kevin:

Yes

Jeannene:

Yeah, which is interesting because I'm listening to it. I'm thinking that must be really empowering it is but beyond that feels really brave To what to be able to speak up and say to a group of people. Yeah, I think that's incredible You Who out there of you that maybe have struggled with alcohol, drug, any type of addictions, gambling, et cetera, food, whatever it be, thinking about being in a group, Would be comfortable or would be brave enough to say that. I just think that's wonderful, Kevin.

Kevin:

But, but doesn't that happen in some other groups too? I know you've run other groups.

Jeannene:

Yeah, it does.

Kevin:

Isn't it the same, you know, safety and then being listened to?

Jeannene:

Yeah, uh, yes. If it's facilitated well, absolutely. Okay.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

So I wasn't assuming that it was. Narcotics Anonymous was, you know, the only place where you could do that.

Jeannene:

No, there are definitely other places that you can do that. I guess I was thinking about those people who are secretive in terms of their, their experience of life, or whether it's their addictions or whatever's happening for them that's painful or difficult, and just feeling somewhat, you know, Shameful about their past and sometimes that can be something that they might have experienced some trauma and recognizing that they've been on the tail end of some nasty stuff that's happened. Often what happens is victims can hold shame about what is not theirs to hold. And so they don't get the opportunity to talk about what's happened for them because they feel like in some way. for listening. It's their fault that they've been wronged when it is not, people. Yeah. Yep, yep. So, I want to say brave from lots of different, uh, ways of thinking, but I think that it's brave to speak out in front of a group and own what's happening for you. I think that's incredibly brave.

Kevin:

Yes, it is. A friend of mine says about what we do, which I just explained to you, is that it takes some courage, that every single person sitting in that room is courageous. And, you know, if someone who's just stopped using drugs and is sitting there to hear that sort of stuff from someone who's been around for a long time, it's mighty powerful. It takes their focus off of, oh look, I'm scared and I'm sweating and I'm really unsure about all these emotions I'm feeling. And have somebody else who they can identify with. Tells them, you know, how courageous it is to do what they're doing. Yeah. And that we We agree that what's said in that, in that room, in that circle, stays there, it doesn't go anywhere else, yeah.

Jeannene:

Wonderful guidelines.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. I love the way you started that just then.

Kevin:

I'm glad you said that again, because it wasn't recording.

Jeannene:

I know.

Kevin:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeannene:

Because you said, ah, now I've lost it.

Kevin:

Yes, I said, are we ready? Do we know what we're going to talk about? No, let's go.

Jeannene:

That's usually how we start.

Kevin:

Yeah, something like that. It's like, yeah.

Jeannene:

When we stopped, we started to think about some other things that people say. And one of them was I'll pray for you. What was that?

Kevin:

What?

Jeannene:

I don't know.

Kevin:

What was that? It was me going, Ah! Don't! I think, you know, my parents, that happens in Narcotics Anonymous. It's like, you know, I'll pray for you. It happens everywhere. If something's really, really hurting you, pray for them. And I understand what they mean. They mean, Not to really to pray for the other person, but you need to actually let go of that anger that you're feeling towards that person. So why not say that?

Jeannene:

Yeah. And if you're going to pray for that person, please do that. That sounds wonderful. If you're going to pray for me, fantastic. Do that to your God or your experience or your earthly mother nature, or whether it's the God of Buddha or the angels. Is irrelevant. Fantastic. But don't tell me to do it. But don't tell me. I'll pray for you. Yeah. As if that fixes everything. Yeah. And I need to stop. Yeah. Because I'm gonna keep going and that doesn't help my body in this moment. I think sometimes it's really well intended if it comes across with a religious Connotation that doesn't respect the person who's having the pain really

Kevin:

if you forget about the words that the underlying message is still the same and so I Don't care. I can't deal with this I've got to go do some shopping My phone's ringing. Oh, you're in my face. I don't know. It's not being It's not listening. It's not being there. It's something else. It's about being elsewhere. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't mean the message. It's a very powerful thing to say because, you know, it's like Hey, I'm going to invoke God here. Good. Yeah. But it doesn't help, which is what you said, isn't

Jeannene:

it? It doesn't help in the moment. No. And that's a personal thing that that person may do and I want to support them. Fantastic. That's great. But if you're talking with someone who's in pain in the moment, that might be an after thing that you might say. But you want to be able to hear what's happening and I want to be heard. If I'm in this pain or this moment of distress, I want to be able to disclose it so I can let it go and let it out of my body. Otherwise, it's got to sit there and fester. Or I've got to cover it up with other shit that's gone, that's got to happen.

Kevin:

I'm going to, I think I might get some flack about this from my friends in NA. But, but, but, but Gail says, I don't want to fucking know that you'll pray for me. I'd much rather that you were here with me.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. Yeah, but as you said, fine, if you want to do that, go and do that.

Jeannene:

Well, that's the teenager. And I think about him, I had a teenager experience when I was involved in church. More of a, um, I was I don't know how to say this. When I was a teenager, I was involved in a church organization and I remember an elder of the church, after I disclosed about some painful stuff that was happening for me around my relationship with a parent. And the first thing he said was, Let's pray and said all these things to me in prayer, then stood up and walked away. And I wanted to be like, yo, just be with me here now. You just dismissed everything I said. And actually you put like a big weighted blanket on top of me so that I can't express myself any further.

Kevin:

Yep. Yep. Yep. I get that, yeah. So, yes, it's fun doing what we've been doing, but I'm not sure that we've talked about, like, yeah, it really is fun doing, but what we want instead, we've talked a little bit, I'd like to be listened to. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe that's enough. It is enough. How do I get that?

Jeannene:

Well. Let's do it the opposite way around. So if I'm in pain here, and I'm teary, what do you need to do?

Kevin:

Not get scared.

Jeannene:

Mm hmm.

Kevin:

Yep. Not feel like things are changing and collapsing.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Uh, I just need to be with you. Listen.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Give you a hug.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Uh, study it.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

I love the first things you said. Not be scared.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

And what's the next thing you said? Not run away. Not run away. Yeah. Yeah, you said it differently, but the essence is not run away. Yeah. I think that that's the core of why people say these things.

Kevin:

Yeah. So I'm not unique.

Jeannene:

I think you are.

Kevin:

Well, yeah, I guess we are, but I get those things too. So you start, you're crying or you're in distress, then that impacts me, but you're my friend. So I am learning to be here.

Jeannene:

Now ask me, ask me.

Kevin:

Well, I'll ask you the same thing. Yeah. So what would you do if I was distressed? So my way of being distressed is probably wouldn't be tears.

Jeannene:

No,

Kevin:

it might be like this. It might be.

Jeannene:

They can't see. I

Kevin:

can't see. Sorry. Because I'm putting my head down. It might be shouting.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Um, being angry, which is most likely.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Or as a friend said, you know, Oh, he's in one of his moods. So I might be reflective.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

So what would you do?

Jeannene:

Uh, I'd. Tell myself, don't run away. Same. Interesting, but different. So, I'd say that first and then I'd be thinking about an iceberg and I'd be thinking Kevin's angry at the top so he's feeling vulnerable underneath. And so then I'd be responding to the vulnerable underneath and I'd going, oh. You don't sound okay. So I do some reflective thing to say that I'm hearing that something's not going so well for you. And then usually what I find is if you're in that state, or if someone's in that state, then they usually soothe. Or start to deescalate and then we start to have a conversation, but I know that I would be similarly, I'd be scared. Yeah. And so it's more around soothing myself going, it's okay, you can stay because this person isn't someone of the past. And I will be checking, am I going to get hurt here? And I'm definitely not with you. And I might be checking with you. Depending on what's happening. Yep. And so, I'm soothing those parts of myself that might be really scared. And then I'll be staying here with the adult part of me that goes, Oh, I really care about Kevin.

Kevin:

How different is that from all the things that we've been discussing? That's brilliant.

Jeannene:

Mmm. It's pretty cool, isn't it? Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Jeannene:

I get why we've said these things as well in the past to people. And I get why people say that. Yeah. I just think it's time to be different.

Kevin:

Yeah, but when we, before we started the podcast and we were writing these down, even before we wrote them down, we were talking about it. And And Uh, we, I don't remember the exact way the conversation went between you and I, but it was like, yeah, we're standing opposite sides of your, um, island in the kitchen, and you dragged yourself across the top.

Jeannene:

I did a bit slidey on the top of it. You're right in front

Kevin:

of me and started telling me all of these things, which was fantastic. And then we went back to talking again and it's like messages that we get all of the time we're bombarded with them and we bombard each other with them yeah it's a snowball that you know someone has given us and we roll it in the snow and pass it on to the next person and then and then we see it around us all the time like today we see it everywhere i don't know if this is True, and I don't know if it's still true, if it is true, but apparently we see directly or indirectly every day something like 50, 000 adverts, or is it 5, 000? Big difference, but anyway, a lot. Let's say 5, 000.

Jeannene:

Okay.

Kevin:

So, yeah, 5, 000 adverts a day, and they, in part, impinge on these kinds of messages. They say, this is how you should, this is how you should be a man. You'll feel better

Jeannene:

if you have this particular item. Yes. This, this. If you have that experience, oh my god, that will make it all better. Go to

Kevin:

holiday here and Oh, you need

Jeannene:

this washing machine. Yes. It's fantastic. It will change your life.

Music:

And it's a lie.

Kevin:

I mean, we all know it's a lie, don't we? But It

Jeannene:

does give you a tad of dopamine.

Kevin:

Yes, and yeah. And it also gives you a, oh, perhaps I need to change my computer or, people say to me like this, this MacBook that we're recording on, is 2012 it was made in, what's that make it? Older. 12, 12 years old. Yep. And, you know, even my daughter who knows, I'm sorry Chloe, even my daughter who knows a lot about them would say to me, So. Why don't you get a new, why don't I get a new one? Because it still works. I'm fortunate in that I can upgrade it myself, but basically it still works. So why would I throw it away?

Jeannene:

And again, what I guess what you're saying is that we can all be influenced by these things and yep, we can have the new shiny things and the wonderful things around us. And yes, that might change our moments, which is fabulous. And we all. You know, some of us buy some new things and enjoy those experiences, and some of us get pulled into doing things we don't want to do, uh, but I guess what you're saying is to just be aware of it and these messages come, they're bombarded at us or to us.

Kevin:

Yes, that was the point. I love buying things. I love shopping even when I don't buy things. When I don't buy things. Just browsing, um, which is a different story altogether. So I won't go there, but I do, I love buying things. But the messages that we get bombarded with, which sort of link into these things we've been talking about. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

I don't think that they're good for us. So, you know, so I've just said, I don't think advertising is good for us. I guess that's not a big surprise really. But we are surrounded by them everywhere we go. We've got billboards and now we've got moving billboards so they're changing all the time, driving down the freeway instead of just having an advert up on the next bridge that you're coming to, or the next whatever it is, it's now a video.

Jeannene:

Oh, great. I just want to see a movie as I'm driving along and needing to concentrate. Yeah. Dangerous.

Kevin:

So yeah. You know my

Jeannene:

pet hate?

Kevin:

What's that?

Jeannene:

When I go and get petrol and I put the bow, is it the bowser? I put the bowser in. How do you say that?

Kevin:

Bowser.

Jeannene:

Yeah, I use the bowser.

Kevin:

Yeah. Use the bowels. Yeah. I

Jeannene:

use the bowels. Anyway, there's a video at the front advertising something and first time I saw it, I was furious. So what I do is I turn away, I put my back to it and I do some stretching. I tend to put my leg up on top of the car or something to stretch or to do something to take my mind and body off looking at the thing because I get so stressed.

Kevin:

It's so cross. You just, I just found another thing. Just when you said that. That's fantastic. I love going into cafes, not just to have a coffee or something to eat, but to also write. These days, I don't know about everybody else out there, but the places I go, you go into a cafe, it's like walking into a rock concert. You know, there's just music playing, so what is that? You don't want people to talk to each other because you certainly aren't going to have fun. Much of a conversation, I can barely concentrate on writing.

Jeannene:

Kevin, sometimes I like the music.

Kevin:

Oh okay, alright, there you go. But if it's too loud. My friend might say, oh it's just Kevin's, one of Kevin's moods. Ha ha

Jeannene:

ha ha ha ha. Yeah, I was thinking you're getting a bit moody there Kevin.

Kevin:

Yeah, you know what you could do. Yeah, what's wrong with talking to each other? I can listen to the music somewhere else. Yeah, that is a bit, anyway, it's mine, I'll, I'll own it.

Jeannene:

No, it's fun. And I think also often there's something that's really good for us can flip into something that's not good for us. And I think if we're needing the quiet and the space, then that's not going to be the place to get it. For you and sometimes for all of us. They're great things to think about. Yeah, they are Are we okay

Kevin:

Kevin? What do you mean? Of course I'm okay!

Jeannene:

That's, that's, don't you love that? Are you okay? I actually do say that sometimes

Kevin:

Yeah, but it's always followed with something else.

Jeannene:

Oh, which brings me to the next thing.

Kevin:

Oh no, what's

Jeannene:

happening now? Well, it's more about genuinely. Wanting to know if someone's okay. So I can say, you okay? You okay? What's the matter? Oh no, I just reminded myself of somebody else, a relative that's asked that to me. Yes, I

Kevin:

know you did.

Jeannene:

Nevermind people. I'll just recover myself over here.

Kevin:

Yeah, but when you say that. I know that you really want to know.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

So that's different. So, yeah.

Jeannene:

Is it different?

Kevin:

Yeah, it is different. Yeah. Because I know you so well.

Jeannene:

Yeah. I think also, um, you get that energy or that experience from someone and that happens more so face to face, but when you can't be, even on the phone, it's like, are you okay? So it's almost an invitation to tell me more because you matter.

Kevin:

Yeah. Yeah. Which is different from a. A friend walking up to you and going, are you okay? As they walk off again.

Jeannene:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. So yeah.

Jeannene:

So there's so many messages that are given in the ways that we deliver that, what we say. Maybe that's another podcast. I've

Kevin:

just opened a box here. So many messages. There are so, so much more there.

Jeannene:

Well, I guess what I'd like to say is this has been really fun, Kevin.

Kevin:

Yeah. Yep. And that was you. You engineered that.

Jeannene:

Thanks for that. I did. I needed a fix and I needed something to laugh at. And I think that's a lovely balance from where we went with our last podcast. Yeah, it

Music:

worked. Thank you. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Yeah. No worries. Great chatting with you always people. Uh, great chatting with you, Kevin.

Kevin:

And you Janine.

Jeannene:

And we'll see you in the next fortnight I hope.

Kevin:

Yep.

Jeannene:

Uh, we won't see you,

Kevin:

well I

Jeannene:

guess we'll chat to you. Oh

Kevin:

chat to you, yeah. I wonder where you were gonna go with that. Okay.

Jeannene:

Bye for now.

Kevin:

Bye.

People on this episode

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Jeannene

Host
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Kevin

Host