Inward Journey

Conflict - Episode 22

• Kevin Bergin • Season 1 • Episode 22

Share episode

We would love to hear from you. Tell us about what you liked and why or just say hello - J&K

Talk to us and see us on Instagram @ https://www.instagram.com/inwardjourneypod/

Jeannene:

Before we start our podcast today, we would like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we are meeting. The

Kevin:

Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. Sometimes I'd be, leave your place and a couple of days later I'd think, I'd better phone Janine up because I think she charged me for a whole session and we left two minutes early. Ha ha ha ha ha!

Jeannene:

What, an IOU? Yeah,

Kevin:

I got stacks of them! Ha ha

Jeannene:

ha ha! Did you notice any times that we might have gone over for

Kevin:

two minutes? Never! Never! And you still owe

Jeannene:

me? Ha ha ha ha! Shall I send you the invoice? No.

Kevin:

Ha ha ha ha! That's definitely conflict. Yeah. Right. We've started. We've started. Yeah. And today we're going to be talking about, uh, I'm right.

Jeannene:

And welcome to the podcast. Oh, sorry.

Kevin:

Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Scratch all that.

Jeannene:

And you are? I am me. Shall we starting again? No. We're just into this. My name is Kevin and I'm Janine and welcome to the podcast. Welcome.

Kevin:

Before we start, I just want to tell you all that

Jeannene:

I'm right. Oh my God. So we're talking about conflict and I'm right. Actually, we've been arguing before we actually got on to the recording. Can you not put your glasses down on the table and make a bang because then it puts a bang down on the bottom of the But then I

Kevin:

got this piece of software that takes the bang

Jeannene:

out. Well, I'm distracted around this. Had you told me about that beforehand, that would have been better. I'm right. I'm right. So we're right into it. We're into conflict.

Kevin:

I don't think we've ever been in conflict.

Jeannene:

Yes, we have. We've been in conflict lots of times. Oh, okay. We have, actually. Conflict. Well, it's interesting. What is it? It's very interesting, because yes, there's conflict that can happen between you and I, but if there's conflict that I've got happening within me, then you'll feel it. Okay. How? Well, let's say I'm not happy. Not happy Jan? Not happy Janine. Oh. Even stronger than Jan. Yeah. If I'm not happy with, um, the things around me, or How a family member has been acting towards me or someone, something like grumpy or something? Well, I'm in conflict, like I'm uncomfortable. So then I'd come to see you and I might go, Hi.

Kevin:

But I would then say, What's up with you?

Jeannene:

That's right. Yeah. That's right, because you would feel it. Even though I'm not bringing it up. And even though it's not. directly got to do with you, it's going to impact you. It's

Kevin:

not a good way to sort things out though, is it? Walk around looking all grumpy. Better to say something.

Jeannene:

Better to say something. Well, in that case, what I hope I would do, and I think you and I know I would do, I'd go, oh, I've got this conflict. I'm not doing so well today. I'm just going to park it for the moment. Let's get on with.

Kevin:

That's not true. You wouldn't. You'd say something like, Ah, bugger it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whatever.

Jeannene:

Ha, ha, ha, ha. You reckon? Well, that's more like it, isn't it? Yeah. What? Whingey, whingey? No. Get it out. Yeah. Yeah, I would. I'd get it out. Yeah. Because I just think if I don't talk about it, you're going to feel it anyway.

Kevin:

Yeah. So that's the point. Yeah. Inner conflict. Yeah. Everybody gets a dose of it.

Jeannene:

It's not named.

Kevin:

So, walking down the street, people will get a dose of it. And the other way around. Like, I quite often, these days, go for an early morning walk. And the place where I walk is alongside a creek. And there are not many people around. So, um, So I've got used to nodding or saying hello. It was about some supper this morning, and this, this young guy walked past, and I said hello to him, and he just, oh, they can't see that guy's, his face was all screwed up, and I just thought, oh, it's quite nice, you know, exchange hellos.

Jeannene:

It is. So it sounds like that person was in conflict. I'd say

Kevin:

he was definitely in conflict, and he was like. Letting people know, like, uh, when I first went to meetings, people would say, later on they told me, um, I, I had, uh, fuck off written across my forehead. I can imagine. It's true. You can imagine? Mm hmm.

Jeannene:

How rude. I've experienced that of you in the past. She has not. I have. Let me tell you people, oh my goodness, and what happens is, that's an inner conflict about. It comes out. Yeah, but it's a conflict of you within yourself about you or about life. It affects other people. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. In my experience it pushes

Jeannene:

them away. Yeah. Yeah. And, and often, what you're actually wanting is the opposite. Closer. Yeah. But that, the. Doesn't really allow people to get close. And the very thing you're wanting causes them to go away, which increases the conflict. And dealing with what's going on in your body and what's happening inside is pretty significant.

Kevin:

Fortunately, there are some people who won't let that deter them.

Jeannene:

What do you mean? They just stay with it, do you mean? Yeah, they're just like that. Oh, that's true. I

Kevin:

can think of all sorts of people,

Jeannene:

yeah. Yeah. So, you and I have got a way of dealing with it, though. We talk about it. We talk about it. Yeah, yeah. So that relieves the conflict. The interesting thing, this is an interesting fact. I'm not going to get the stats right, but I think there's around 75 percent of all conflicts never get resolved. Wow. Yeah, I know, right? All those

Kevin:

resentments out there. Yeah, that's right. Unresolved

Jeannene:

conflict. But if you think about it, the, the conversations that you have with people or partners or family members that there is this disagreement. People are wanting to resolve, but they don't have the conversations around it, or they don't know how to regulate to have the conversations, or they withdraw and don't have the conversations, so they just remain in conflict.

Kevin:

Yeah. Um, yeah. So, if you've got two people, Yep. Two parties in conflict, and one of them decides that's not okay and they want to talk about it. Yeah. They want to talk about it. And the other one said, no, you can get stuffed. What happens

Jeannene:

then? Oh, it's really tricky. Well, I, I have this. saying or philosophy is, so far as it depends on me, I want to be at peace with the world.

Kevin:

Yeah, okay, so you just do your bit and that's it. That's

Jeannene:

it. So if someone doesn't want to have anything to do with me, or doesn't want to work through the conflict, then so far as it depends on me, I'm going to do my best around seeing them or bringing it up or doing what I can. But if they won't engage, they don't want to, Then, that's okay, because I can't make it happen. So, I'm going to need to resolve what I've done for me, for the conflict, in the best way that I can. That's it. Well, you have

Kevin:

to have some other way. Like, I've got another way. Hmm? I just, Yael just says, Hey! Listen up! Ha, ha, ha.

Jeannene:

Like I would normally say, How's that go for Yael?

Kevin:

Fantastic. Mmm.

Jeannene:

Oh, look, I think there's many of us would have that part of yell that, that want to say that don't, but feel it anyway.

Kevin:

Yeah, I'm trying to put my big, heavy rainbow colored. With a love of Oh, Ollie, down quietly, because otherwise it does Oh my god.

Jeannene:

And then you get in conflict with me. He's like, really? Really, Kevin? Really? How about you put that down solid? We've talked about this before. How come you haven't got it?

Kevin:

Be quiet, Mum.

Jeannene:

So that's called a projection. You're projecting onto me that I'm your mum and I'm not. It's just bloody put the cup down quietly, thank you.

Kevin:

My mum wouldn't have told me to do that. So I don't know where I get that from. She wouldn't have even noticed.

Jeannene:

It's interesting because if you, of the understanding that I have a conversation with you or you have a conversation with me and the person changes immediately or they do the right thing like they're never going to put the coffee cup down hard or they're never going to put their glasses down on the table hard, Kevin, again, that's very unrealistic, isn't it? Yes. And it's quite unfair because I think a lot of us are, you know, we're really, we're really conditioned to this way of being. And so it takes some while to uncondition or to become self aware of this

Kevin:

is what I'm I can't change the way anybody else does. I don't think I

Jeannene:

can. Say that again. You can't. No. You can't change what? What

Kevin:

they do.

Jeannene:

What others do. Oh gosh, no.

Kevin:

No. No. Well not unless, you know, I tie them up or something.

Jeannene:

Okay, let's not go there.

Kevin:

No? No. Why not? We don't talk about bondage on here?

Jeannene:

Not in today's podcast. Okay. Let's just, no. Let's just not. That's not, Yael's having a field day. Yael

Kevin:

is doing well today. It's sunny, he's awake.

Jeannene:

I think this is Yael's topic. Conflict. Conflict.

Kevin:

Yael's version of this topic was, I'm right, now I'm right. There

Jeannene:

is something in that.

Kevin:

Yeah, both people could be right. Yeah. That's how Yale came up with

Jeannene:

that. Yeah. Well, we had a discussion. About this a while ago. And the thing is that I have with conflict is that if I've got an opinion, I believe I'm right. Yep. And if you've got an opinion, I figure you think you know you're right, right? Yep. Okay. So, I don't have an issue with that. And I think that's a good thing. When we come to share an opinion, you're allowed, and importantly, to think you're right. But what you would want is you'd want openness to be able to listen to the other person. That doesn't mean you have to change your opinion. Or that you will or you

Kevin:

should. But you mean that you're open to the fact that your opinion might not be right?

Jeannene:

No, you're open to listening to the other person. And then, if you are settled and calm, and you're listening to them, you feedback to them, I hear you say this, if you're really listening to what they're saying, and they've got some parts in it that are valuable you haven't thought of before, Then you will want to shift your opinion, won't you?

Kevin:

Yeah, so that means you were wrong.

Jeannene:

I, I wouldn't say that, but you start with believing you're right, but you're open to listening. Yeah, yeah. Because if I'm right, and you're right, and I just clap then, can we make a clap noise? Is that in? Yeah, we

Kevin:

can take it out too, it's alright. Was it? It'll come out. I'm not sure how the software works, but above and below certain frequencies it just

Jeannene:

takes it out. Thank goodness people, I have an IT expert here with me. Um, His name is Yell. Let's not let Yell touch any of the software. He'll, he'll delete all my, my, my bits. Oh gosh, I've forgotten what I was saying. Both right. Yeah.

Kevin:

I can't remember what you were talking about now though,

Jeannene:

sorry. It's more about If I believe that I'm right, I'd really want to listen to your opinion, because if I don't listen to your opinion, then I won't be able to have a counter argument to it. I'll always be just saying mine, right? But if I listen to yours, then I can have a counter argument. And, if I listen to yours and there's no counter argument, then I might be challenged to change my opinion. Let's have

Kevin:

a go. Oh my goodness. So, I think it's lovely today, just the right temperature. What about you?

Jeannene:

It's really hot outside, have you been outside? I've

Kevin:

been outside, in it for a walk, driving, lovely. Lovely,

Jeannene:

lovely, lovely. It sounds like it's really lovely to you. Yeah. It sounds like you really appreciate the weather at the moment. I do, yeah. Sounds really nice. So I'm right. For you, that sounds really good. I have a different experience of the weather. I find it quite exhausting. Uh, I find the sun on my skin quite threatening. I've had sun cancers in the past. And so I, I'm less comfortable with being in the sun. And it's not something that I enjoy.

Kevin:

As I, just as I suspected, both of us are right. But we are, aren't we? We are. Yes. Yeah.

Jeannene:

But what did you hear of

Kevin:

what I said? That it was uncomfortable, that you've had problems with skin cancer.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Yeah. So what was it like hearing that

Kevin:

view? Well, it's like, it's not good for you. Yeah. And in fact, it's not good for me either, I just made that up. Yeah, I'll make that up. But yeah. Yeah, anything over, um, certain temperature and humidity, and it's not comfortable. I guess that's not comfortable today. That's interesting because I'm going to tell you the story about me and my dad, to do with exactly this. Fire away. So, a very uneducated dad, very intelligent though, very smart. And when I stopped taking drugs, I was living in London and my mum and him were living on the south coast, where they've always been, I'd occasionally go down to see them and inevitably I'd end up having this discussion with him about religion and I remember one particular time I went down and we went out fishing, I think it was fishing, he liked to fish, he was really good at fly fishing, so we went out. And I was poking fun at him, really, and we were having the usual discussion about Catholicism, which I don't believe in, at all. I don't believe in any religion. Oh, we were never going to talk about religion, so I just did. Anyway, it's not about religion, it's just about me and my dad.

Jeannene:

You're just saying the discussion had religion in it.

Kevin:

And I was poking fun at him and I say, you really don't believe that you're going to go up to heaven. And he said he did and he told me again, I can't remember about the details and all of that. And so we carried on and it turned into an almost argument and then we both stopped and I was driving back to London later on. Feeling really, really uncomfortable with that conversation and it suddenly hit me that he believed it that much, which he did, then it was true for him and then I didn't have to worry about it anymore, there wasn't any conflict, so I didn't have to change how I saw it, or how he saw it, because I couldn't, I couldn't change how he saw it and I couldn't. Change how I saw it. It would be a lie to do so. So, uh, I just realized that, you know, if he believed that, then it was true. Oh,

Jeannene:

what a lovely story of respect. Is it? Yeah. Oh, okay. Just respecting your beliefs as well as your dad's. Like, that it won't change, that his beliefs are his. Yeah. And just really acceptance of Who he is. Yeah, yeah. And yourself. And it's a lovely way to resolve that conflict in you, rather than, Urgh, you don't think the way I do, or you don't believe what I do. What the hell, Dad? What's your issue? Yeah, yeah. You found a way to have it settle within your body.

Kevin:

Yeah. And that was a great example. It was interesting, because it opened up a whole bunch of other possibilities for me as well, nothing to do with me and my dad. Yeah, yeah. That's good. I don't know what that's got to do with conflict. I think it's got everything to it had to do with conflict within me, that's for sure. That's it, yeah.

Jeannene:

Great point.

Kevin:

Shall we stop for a moment? Yeah. Let's stop in now. And we're back.

Jeannene:

I remember when you used to come to counselling. Yep. And then we'd finish, you'd go off, and maybe a couple of days later you'd ring me and you'd say, What did you mean when you said this? Yeah,

Kevin:

that sounds like me.

Jeannene:

Yeah, it was kind of like something happened where you were able to just steadily take in what we'd said or what we'd talked about and so it didn't settle with you and so then you'd either ring or text or say, what did you mean when you said this? And it sounded like At a later stage, you were in conflict because your body went, What? Was that a shot at me? Or Yeah. Or were you alluding to something that I didn't get? Or Yeah. Yeah, so my sense was that the conflict came later.

Kevin:

Sometimes it was conflict, it wasn't always conflict. Sometimes it was um, or maybe it was, I don't know. It was a not understanding.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Yeah. Well I think that's a form of conflict, absolutely. Yes, so

Kevin:

I am, and I gave myself, I gave, I give myself permission to take as long as I need to take to process things. That could be quite, that could take me a while. Yeah. I do it instantly, and if I did it instantly, then that's a reaction. I'm

Jeannene:

very similar. I also know that if I don't understand something, I, I don't feel comfortable, I don't feel settled, and so that's a form of conflict, so I think we're similar in that way. Yeah,

Kevin:

that's right. Yeah, it comes up. It comes back again. So, I would have left here, and maybe not thought about it too much, and then the next day or the day after it'd be It'll be sticking in my throat. Yeah. Yeah, the way to deal with this is to talk to you about it.

Jeannene:

Yeah, I think that's really good

Kevin:

listening. Yeah, so I had some people teach me to do that, because I used to think that you had to either say something immediately or just shut up forever. Oh

Jeannene:

gosh, no. No. I don't know about you, but sometimes I've had experiences with perhaps family members, and then I've come away and gone Actually, that person wasn't very nice to me. Yeah, yeah, that sort of thing. Or, uh, I didn't actually agree with that and yet I said nothing. Or, I don't feel like that person was supported. Or, Oh, what worse still is, Oh, I think what I actually said was quite critical and, and I want to either take that back or that's not what I meant. So, so the conflict in me might be around that I'm uncomfortable with what I've said. Yeah. And I, and so then for me to again, there's that thing around. So far as it depends on me, I want to be at peace with the world. I want to ring up or I want to connect with that person and say, yeah, and go, you know what? That's after second thoughts or third thoughts, I've, I've come back and I've gone, that wasn't a really nice thing to say to you. I'm really sorry. Or can I take that back or this is what I meant or, or, you know, I, I shouldn't have said that. So. I think that's really important in terms of resolving your body and being without conflict. Or resolving it healthily. Sometimes

Kevin:

I'd be, leave your place and a couple of days later I'd think, I'd better phone Janina because I think she charged me for a whole session and we left two minutes early. Ha ha ha ha ha!

Jeannene:

What

Kevin:

an I. I. U. Yeah, I got stacks of them! Ha

Jeannene:

Did you notice any times that we might have gone over for two minutes?

Kevin:

Never. Never. And you still

Jeannene:

owe me? Shall I send you the invoice?

Kevin:

No. That's definitely conflict. Yeah, right.

Jeannene:

I think there's multiple ways you can be in conflict. Ah, this is the thing I want to say. Ah, you remembered. That conflict in itself. Is

Kevin:

healthy. That's funny because I was just going to say that. It's like, it's not a bad thing. No, it's not. What we just talked about is clearly not a bad thing. Except when it starts

Jeannene:

a war. Yes, yeah, okay. So a war between people, families, countries. Planets. It needs planets. It needs to be help planets? Where did that come from?

Kevin:

That was probably me.

Jeannene:

Okay. This is going in all sorts of directions, isn't it? Look, I think the main thing to talk about is so long as it's healthy conflict. And healthy conflict is calm. Unhealthy

Kevin:

conflict is

Jeannene:

Shouting? Shouting. Name calling. Anything that's got aggression in it. Anger's okay, but not aggression. Gossip?

Kevin:

Gossip, yeah. Is it always bad? So I used to think that gossip was only bad if you go gossip, gossip, gossip to bring people down. Yeah. But I'm not so sure anymore. So if you're talking about somebody else without their knowledge, even if you say Hey, they're a wonderful person. That could be a form of gossip.

Jeannene:

If you're saying they're a wonderful person?

Kevin:

No. Oh, gossip. I'm not saying that's what I think, I'm saying Is that possible? Do you think?

Jeannene:

No. No. Because gossip's got to do with Running people down. Yeah, and unhealthy chatter. Yeah, it has,

Kevin:

yeah. Good. That's something else I don't have to think about.

Jeannene:

So, some of the things, in terms of healthy conversations, and when I think about conflict, one of the things I've noted over time is that having one conversation, if we disagreed about something, Kevin, having one conversation. is too much pressure to think that you or I are going to resolve it in one conversation. Because what happens is it puts a shitload of pressure on that conversation to get it right and for me to be right or you to be right. But

Kevin:

I

Jeannene:

want to push you off the chair now.

Kevin:

Aggressive. Help me. I

Jeannene:

didn't do anything. But if we plan multiple conversations, and it might not be, we might start one conversation. I'm just ignoring the laughter over there, people. Yeah. Um. If we plan one conversation, and we start, and then we notice that either you or I get a bit worked up, it's a bit uncomfortable, you want to stop, take a break, maybe we'll come to it next week, or tomorrow, or we'll have another conversation. Because if you're starting to be dysregulated, if you're starting to get worked up, feeling triggered. What was that word? Dysregulated. Is that a

Kevin:

word? It's a cool word. It is now. Sorry. If we're starting to get detrigulated. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Triggered. Worked up. Uncomfortable. All of that stuff. Then we're not going to peacefully have a good conversation, are we? No. So we want to stop. We want to take stock, and we want to think about it, and I'm unable to listen if I'm all worked up. And so would you

Kevin:

be. Yeah, well no, I'm perfect.

Jeannene:

Yep, now I'm in conflict.

Kevin:

You, you particularly are, because I'm sitting here quite innocently, and you're threatening to push me off my chair.

Jeannene:

We'll have a conversation about this later. No. Again, I can only do what depends on me to be at peace with the world and nothing more people. We can't make Yell do anything.

Kevin:

No, definitely not. Well, yes, you could. But only if it's what you wanted to do. Yeah, that's right.

Jeannene:

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin:

What more do we need to say about conflict?

Jeannene:

I think if we're going to, if you're going to draw us with someone, I did because I think it's really important to have one topic at a time. Oh, you did that? Yeah. I've worked with so many couples that go, well you, and how about you? And what about you? Can you believe you did this? And I saw you do this and you're not responsible here and you need to, and it becomes tit for tat. That's not going to work out. No.

Kevin:

And I, but I also think there's another element like it, there can be a. Yeah, well what the fuck are we arguing about then? What is the conflict? Because all of this other stuff that you just gave examples of, ain't here. Yeah. So what's it really about? Yeah. So finding that and getting the other person to actually talk about that is, getting you to talk about it, then encouraging someone else to talk about it as well.

Jeannene:

So it might be a disrespect that's there that may not be able to be resolved, or it might be around that, so arguing about the other things is not going to be helpful. No, not at all. I've spent so many times in a counselling session, in some ways, arguing about the burnt toast. Or

Kevin:

the, or the

Jeannene:

piece of cake that someone put a note on that said do not touch the cake and it got taken. Because it's around that person is not listening to me, is not valuing me, has not noticed that the toaster needs to be down, or has not valued that I'm more important to put another piece in, or took the cake when I put a clear note on it not to touch. So it can often be around those things. But if you're in competition with the other person around who's got the most defects, Are you going to get stuck? And it's not going to be healthy and it's not going to work out for you. It needs to be around staying on one thing at a time and going to the core issues is going to be some good stuff to help you resolve it or work to resolving it or understanding each other. Like you said before, with the example about your dad, I thought that was a great one. You can't always see eye to eye with some people, and that will be okay. So long as there's acceptance and understanding between the people. I've got one more thing. Yeah, one more thing? One more thing is Okay, Kevin. Let's say I've got this thing that we're in conflict about, okay? Yeah. Uh, and I've got to talk to you about it. Yep. And What I might want to do is, okay, well, I know this is a topic that's going to get me really worked up and I think you might be worked up about it. I really am

Kevin:

now.

Jeannene:

So what we'd want to do is really set some guidelines for each other. Okay. Or I'd start off, because I was like, I really want to talk to you about this, but how about we sit down with a cup of tea. If one of us gets worked up, we stop. Okay. You know, no raising of voices and no getting worked up. We're going to take some time and listen to each other's points of view. What is it? What's the conflict? There's not one. Oh. But doing that with someone is like, look, we've got this thing. We don't quite see eye to eye. I'd really like to talk to you about it. I remember I've done that with Bianca. I've done that in the past. It's not so much as a conflict. It was conflict in me. Like, honey, I want to talk to you about this topic that's really important to you, and I'm not sure I've got a clear understanding. Can you help me out? But when would be a good time? Okay, so I'm looking after them. Yeah, there's a lot of respect there. Yeah, so it's got to start with respect Okay, and respect around the conflict. Hmm, and it can be any number of things Oh, we can do that as as parents we can do that as friends partners Um, colleagues, all of that stuff.

Kevin:

Yeah. Yeah, I would just say, spit it out! Why don't you just tell me what it is?

Jeannene:

And we'd get, how far?

Kevin:

That's about it. Yeah, that's good.

Jeannene:

How have you dealt with things in the past? Like conflict?

Kevin:

Yeah. Take drugs, that'll solve it. Oh. Doesn't solve it, take more drugs. Doesn't solve it, you get the idea. Yeah. When I stopped taking drugs, I'd get angry. OK, yep. Walk away, which is not a bad thing to do. Yeah,

Jeannene:

I've certainly done plenty of that too. Walk away, but,

Kevin:

Yeah. Not walking away with a resolve to picking it up later, and just, so running away really. Yeah. Yeah, which is not so good. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, as I gradually healed, I would still maybe take time out to have a think about what I needed to have a think about. And I don't know that I would always show the level of respect that you just mentioned, but I would certainly check out with the person that I wanted to talk to and make time and a place. Yeah. Like I'm really good at doing that and picking a neutral place. Yeah. Because for me that's important, so I figure it might be important for someone else. Yeah. Possibly a very public place if I thought it was going to be a little explosive. I'd raise voices or something. That's really

Jeannene:

smart.

Kevin:

Yeah, so that you're in, you're kind of confined by the environment. Okay. Yeah, which is good. Great. And exactly what you said, we're going to get as far as we get today. Yeah. Sometimes it's a little teeny thing and sometimes it's not. Not easy though. Not easy to, you know, with um.

Jeannene:

But I like the, the teeny thing. I think it's really valuable because it's part way there and what you're doing is really letting the person know who you're with, or the people that you're with, that we can get a little bit of the way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, which is really good. Yeah. You've also reminded me of something else, because what happens is I found it very difficult To speak up and have my opinion if my opinion was different to other people or to or to speak out and be Authentic about what was happening for me or have questions that I really wanted to ask if I was in conflict with what was happening with The person or a child etc my child and what I figured out and what I'd learned is not to see The conflict as a confrontation.

Kevin:

Oh yeah, the different angles.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Yeah. And the interesting thing is I would bring up topics, for example, while I was washing up. Because then I'm preoccupied and it hasn't got the intensity that is all pressured and uncomfortable. It's just a chat. So I was thinking about this as I'm washing up, and I'm, and I'm wondering what do you think? So then what I'm doing is really looking after my body to calm because if I come up to you and go Kevin what are you doing this for and I'm really wanting to know can you tell me about it? No. That's right. That's what I'm going to get. But what I brought you Or you

Kevin:

might get the other thing. It's like, Oh, yes, of course, this is what I do. You know, and I get smaller and smaller as I carried on talking it. Yeah. One

Jeannene:

or the other. Yeah, true. None of it is conducive to an ongoing respectful relationship. No, not at all. Yeah, or that developing relationship that we've brought. The

Kevin:

thing about meeting, meeting in a public place, I, I am, I'm not sure which way it came, whether I developed that first, um, or whether I was doing internet dating and I'd met some crazy people. So I developed this thing about, I'll meet you in a cafe. Somewhere during the day, daylight hours, and it'll be for 20 minutes only.

Jeannene:

Okay, so you're setting some boundaries on it too, just to

Kevin:

check. Yeah, because I remember, it's a long time ago, so it's okay to say that. I walked into this place, I'd already checked with her and I said, this sounds like it's a bar. She said, No, it's alright. She'd just given me an address and so, I rocked up to this place and it was the RSO and I walked in and it was crowded. And I looked around to my left and to my right and I couldn't see anyone and I looked straight ahead and there's this woman sitting at a table waving to me and she's already three quarters pissed. So as I walked towards her I went, How can I get out of here within five minutes without insulting anyone? And I did it. Okay.

Jeannene:

Okay. I was going to question you about the crazy people, but maybe you're talking about doing crazy things. What do you mean? Because you said.

Kevin:

Oh, I met crazy people. You meet crazy people when you do. But they're possibly not crazy, just to my mind.

Jeannene:

Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. So certainly doing crazy, crazy or unhealthy things.

Kevin:

I'm going to turn up the first time I've ever met a, And this was with my boundaries set, and she agreed to them. She was, that's great. Yeah, let's do that. We'll just meet in a cafe, 20 minutes. And, uh, she had told me that she was an artist. And she turned out with a Dirty Grape painting as a present for me. Oh. Yeah, so. Ha ha ha. All sorts of things happened.

Jeannene:

Was it a good painting?

Kevin:

I don't know, I didn't take it.

Jeannene:

Oh, I think that was safer. Yes. Don't we think that was safer, people?

Kevin:

Yeah, it was. It was definitely safer. Yeah. You know, that's just a few. Mostly what happens is, you know. You meet really nice people and you're not compatible with them.

Jeannene:

So it sounds like you've got a strategy around looking after yourself so you're not in conflict. Yes. Or it's a way to face, or face conflict healthily? I don't know, but it's certainly looking after you. Yes,

Kevin:

I want to be able to walk away going, you know, what happened there between us? It's perfectly alright, I now get to, we now both get to decide whether we want to take it any further. Yeah, yeah. It works, but I'm not sure it works for me meeting someone because, well, it has once. Okay. Yeah, but, yeah, once in a long time. Anyone out there who thinks they're totally compatible with me?

Jeannene:

No. Yes.

Kevin:

Number one. Not, not the forum. Yeah. No. Number one, the street.

Jeannene:

Let's meet in a public place.

Kevin:

Oh dear. I hate it when people say things like, Oh, it gets much more difficult as you get older. I don't want to hear that. I don't want to think about that. You know, dating gets much more Yeah, go away. Take that somewhere else. Yeah.

Jeannene:

Well, I think people can say all those things about Age, or when you've got children, or when you've been divorced, or when you've, you know You can't do that when you've got children. Oh, yeah. That's someone else's issues. It doesn't have to be yours. It's like my dad. You don't need to take on all that conflict.

Kevin:

Yeah. So, are we done? Are we finished?

Jeannene:

I feel like we've given it a good go, Kevin. And we've talked about

Kevin:

conflict and loads

Jeannene:

of other things too. We've certainly talked about conflict in all manner of ways and we've been in conflict, we're pulling out of conflict, we're back in it again. I think they've got the general idea, do you think?

Kevin:

I think so. They can write in to the address that I gave them if they haven't, if they've got any complaints.

Jeannene:

No, we don't, we're not receiving complaints, Kevin. No, we're not, we're not embracing conflict. Bring it on, people. No! No, don't. No, don't.

Kevin:

I won't answer.

Jeannene:

Thanks for listening. I hope you've had as much fun as we have. And we'll look aft look

Kevin:

after

Jeannene:

what? We won't. We'll look forward to seeing you next time. Yes. On the podcast Inward Journey with Janine and

Kevin:

Kevin. Bye. Bye for

Jeannene:

now.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Jeannene

Host
Head Shot

Kevin

Host