We would love to hear from you. Tell us about what you liked and why or just say hello - J&K
See us on Instagram @ https://www.instagram.com/inwardjourneypod
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We would love to hear from you. Tell us about what you liked and why or just say hello - J&K
See us on Instagram @ https://www.instagram.com/inwardjourneypod
Now on Youtubey as well - https://shorturl.at/hZ146
Hello and welcome to our podcast. And we're journey. I'm here with Kevin. And I'm here with Janine. So we have recording on one jury land, the land of the Kulin nation. I thought it would be a good idea to remind people why we're doing the podcast. Yep. And the main reason is around inspiring people. And make your money. Um, Are we making any money, Kevin? It must be a hole in my pocket. We know, making money people. No. It's in particular around your health. And wellbeing and Aus. And what we'd like to do is talk. By giving you examples. Yeah. And talking about. Our journeys via our stories. Yeah. And hopefully inspiring. I know you said that, but that's what really Springs. For me stands out is, you know, inspiring people. Absolutely inspiring me too. Yeah, me too. Okay. Our stories and the best way that people learn. That's the way I remember. And so we're going to tell you our stories. Welcome. Welcome.
Speaker:why would I feel frustrated with somebody else or be frustrated with them when all I need to manage is myself and that's it. I
Speaker 2:don't want people to be brilliant unless I'm as brilliant or possibly more brilliant.
Speaker:How's that going for you?
Speaker 2:Fantastic.
Speaker:\Great.
Not.
Speaker 2:So today we're going to talk about no, or nothing, or no one, anything with no in it. N O.
Speaker:I think it's about saying no.
Speaker 2:Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah.
Speaker:have we actually said the topic? It's saying no.
Speaker 2:Topic is saying
Speaker:no. So this came about because I was at a dance class recently and I'd say there was a woman, perhaps around middle age, a bit younger, anyways. Old. No! Anyway. You said it, no! No. That's not kind of the no I'm going for. Anyway. No is a good word. so is yes. We'll go there later. Maybe we'll get to it. So this woman was telling a story how she'd had some free time and when she was telling her friends I've got free time on Saturday. They all went, Oh, great. We can do this and we can do that. And she built up in all this anger and she said, I said to them, no, I'm not going. We're not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm staying home. I've got my free time. And why that was significant is she also went on to say that once she'd said no, she said there was this unusual silence for an hour from her friends.
Speaker 2:That's a long time.
Speaker:That's a long time where they just like. Didn't want to talk to, didn't know what to do. Yeah. So it sounds like it was a really difficult thing for this woman to say no to her friends. And almost, she had to say it with a force, they were not used to her saying no and also felt that force. And so I started to think about that. And I certainly had been that person who had struggled to say no in the past. And so I thought, well, why don't we talk about how you say no?
Speaker 2:Just say no.
Speaker:Oh, just like that, Kim?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just no.
Speaker:Has it been easy for you?
Speaker 2:Um, no. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it's a learning thing. It's a learning thing.
Speaker:Well, has it been easy for you? No,
Speaker 2:it hasn't been easy.
Speaker:Well, how have you said it in the past? Or what's happened as a result? I still do.
Speaker 2:I have to be really honest, don't I? I, I still say no. Yes, or maybe when I'm thinking no, I don't want to do that because it can be really difficult. So, What do I do? But that's not taking care of myself taking care of myself and say Yeah, I won't be able to do that because there's a reason for not doing it or I'm just like I won't be able to do that But for no reason, just don't give a reason to us. I won't be doing that Really? I'm on my own here now. Janine's just taken Asher outside so she can have a wee. And I just wanted to tell you all that you don't need to worry about any of this. Just say no. Say no, no, no. Or you could say NO! Yeah, okay, they're on their way back.
Speaker:So you just played to me what you've told our listeners when Asher and I went outside.
Speaker 2:I didn't do it.
Speaker:Mind you, my dog didn't pee, it wouldn't, so I don't know if any of the listeners out there have one of those dogs that asks to go outside and then doesn't do what they're supposed to do, possibly because the grass is too wet or it's not the right conditions. So anyway, I have one of those, but now I've come in and Kevin has just, show me what is recorded without me. I did actually think what you had said before around it's not caring for myself. If I say yes, When you don't mean it. When you don't mean it. Yeah. You say
Speaker 2:yes, when you mean no, you can stick that up your jumper. Yeah, that's, that's a no. It should be a no. But it's like how we started this podcast off. If somebody, for instance, say you want to go to the movies and I go, no, that's probably not the best answer to be.
Speaker:No, probably not.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's like, you want to go to the movies, the answer would be, Oh, you know what? I don't feel like doing it. And maybe there'd be some further reason. Yeah. It doesn't need to be though.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That could be it. Yeah.
Speaker:I think that the tricky stuff is like, I've been a survivor and maybe this woman back in my dance class had a similar thing. Where she had gotten used to. I know that I certainly had gotten used to saying yes to everything because then I got approval and then I got acceptance, and then I felt like I was a lovable person. And so saying yes was how I got attention. was how I got some much, needed, focus on myself. And so I'd say yes to things. It served me for a time. And I think saying yes is a, skill and it's a wonderful thing. However, if you have no ability to say no, then you're not quite being genuine to yourself, nor the other person. And you're not caring for yourself. Let's go back to our person at the dance class. So when I think about this woman, she had to say it was such force and anger. And I really felt for her. That, that, that needed to be there. So I'm thinking maybe there were other times that she needed to say no ahead of time. That she'd felt like she'd said yes and was building up this resentment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Can you think about times when you've said yes and
Speaker 2:been
Speaker:resentful?
Speaker 2:Oh, been, I don't know about, yeah, I can. And this is me, but it wouldn't be uncommon against Not just drug addicts, people using drugs, but all sorts of people that you said it kind of, that don't think, but I used to, I used to, oh sorry, I'm banging my leg like that because Janine's telling me off with her eyes. She could have just said no, but she didn't. And what was I saying? You didn't need
Speaker:to, you just used my eyes. Yeah, no
Speaker 2:eyes.
Speaker:So,
Speaker 2:saying yes used to be a way from a very, very young age where it got me out of trouble.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And could also get me into trouble, but more often than not, agreeing. Saying yes would, when I didn't mean yes at all, would get me out of trouble when I was older, a young teenager, until I was a young man. Using that kind of manipulation, to get what I wanted out of people. Like you said, it might be to get some attention, it might be to get some money, it might be to get some drugs. It might be just to be accepted. and that certainly builds up a lot of resentment. And then when I stopped using drugs and got into recovery, it was so much a habit.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, you know, I didn't say no to anyone or anything. Boy, did I resent the people making me say yes when I meant no. Or making me say yes when I meant You can get
Speaker:fucked. Oh dear. The interesting thing is, you just said, That saying yes was a manipulation and I'm thinking, wow, I've never thought about it in that way.
Speaker 2:Can be.
Speaker:It can be in terms of it's manipulated the situation to serve your purposes, but it wasn't authentically who you are and you weren't being good or kind to yourself or the other person, one or the other.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker:So what I'm thinking is, how we can genuinely say yes to something, but also in the same way, genuinely say no. So I think that there's a way of saying no, where you're just with yourself, but sometimes in order to do that, for me, what I needed was a little bit of space, because I couldn't find a way to say it in the moment, at first, when I was thinking about in the past, if someone asked me to do something, say if you asked me to do something, and I'd I'd Couldn't say no What I'd end up doing is giving myself a little bit of space so it might be let me think about that
Speaker 2:Which is great
Speaker:and get back to
Speaker 2:you. Yeah,
Speaker:so I would do or say something like that to give myself some space It's to think of an answer that fitted, with my inward world as well as my outside. So if you asked me to do something and say, mow your lawn and which it would be difficult because you don't have a lawn at the moment. But if you asked me to do that, at your old place you had a lawn and we talked about it.
Speaker 2:Way too much lawn.
Speaker:Way too much lawn. And then I wanted to say, no, I don't. but felt like I couldn't because let's say lots was happening for me and I'm not able to do that in the moment. What I would do is I'd go, Oh, Oh, Kevin, I've got a lot on. I would like to say yes to you. let me think about it and I'll get back to you and see if I've got some time.
Speaker 2:I'm not
Speaker:sure.
Speaker 2:I learned that from you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think, uh, I'm not sure. Give me a moment.
Speaker:How was it? To hear that from me if I gave myself some space and I said I'll get back to you.
Speaker 2:It's okay
Speaker:Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2:so I guess maybe the first couple of times you said it It wouldn't have been so okay, but I tell you what's not okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah,
Speaker 2:it's one of both things When somebody says no to me
Speaker 3:Yeah, but
Speaker 2:it used to be not okay or or when I say yes and I don't mean so I understand now today right now that if I say yes and I don't want to do something, it means that because I'm at that moment I'm being a victim.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker 2:I'm giving my power away.
Speaker:Yeah, I don't feel
Speaker 2:like I can say anything except yes.
Speaker:Yeah, and the other two is for me if I think about if I've got to fight to say no. Then I can still feel like a victim, but I can also feel like a persecutor going, no, so I'm almost caught in between those two roles that are not healthy and not well. But I want to go back to something you said. So if I said, I
Speaker 2:didn't say it,
Speaker:you did, I heard you and it was recorded along with other stuff I haven't known about, but anyway,
Speaker 2:yeah,
Speaker:it's good
Speaker 2:stuff in
Speaker:there. If we go back to what you said is you didn't like it at first when I said, I'm going to think about it and get back to you, Kevin, I really want to give you a clear answer. It's different
Speaker 2:things to think about, isn't it?
Speaker:Yeah, and it might not be what you want to hear in the moment, but if I'm coming from my perspective and thinking about people out there or out there who. are not used to them saying no to them. They're gonna get some resistance. They're gonna get some people who are not gonna like it. But what you're teaching them is to get used to sometimes they're gonna hear a no from you and sometimes they're gonna hear a yes but they're gonna get an honest you. And also, you're teaching people how to treat you, and you're also teaching people how to say no and yes to you as well, both.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker:Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:It does make sense, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was just also thinking about friends, and, like, very different people, and, How they are.
Speaker:Tell me more.
Speaker 2:Hmm. Well, I was thinking about two friends in particular. One, He doesn't actually say no or yes.
Speaker:What's he say? Well, it
Speaker 2:depends how I do it. So, if it's like, electronically done, like maybe text message, he'll just not answer.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker 2:That's a no.
Speaker:Yeah, but it's neither.
Speaker 2:No, it's right. How do
Speaker:you respond to that?
Speaker 2:Me?
Speaker:I just
Speaker 2:keep pestering him for the answers. I've learnt to do that with him.
Speaker:Oh, that's that thing called ghosting.
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker:Well, when someone doesn't get back to you about anything, they just disappear. They disappear off the face of the earth. So you can't get to them. They could
Speaker 2:be really busy too.
Speaker:They could be, and you could ask again. But if they don't respond to you, there's nothing you can do about that.
Speaker 2:Some people do
Speaker:that. Some people do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah. Because it's
Speaker:too confronting to answer. And again, I guess when we're having this conversation, and when you and I are having this conversation, Kevin, I'm thinking about just us. Yeah. And so you can't. do this on behalf of somebody else. You can't teach them to say no. You can just be authentic yourself. You can just be with yourself and have an honest yes or an honest no. I've
Speaker 2:also got a friend, probably more than one friend, who does this. I might be talking to him about something and let's do that. Instead of just saying, I'll think about it or I'm going to be busy. He'll come up with a 15 page list of reasons why he couldn't possibly do it and how sorry he is. Which is just absolutely bullshit. I just want to tell him that it's absolutely bullshit. But he'd be so offended if I did.
Speaker:He sounds like a very stressed person. Have I got that right?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think he is. I keep hearing him say, no, I'm fine.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:No, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'll just have another drink. I'm fine.
Speaker:Perhaps he's not so fine.
Speaker 2:No, he's not.
Speaker:But, again, that's that person's issue, not yours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, that's right. That's, It's kind of difficult to deal with,
Speaker 3:because then I've
Speaker 2:got a friend who's told me a load of bullshit, and I'm just like, uh huh. There's nothing to do really, I'll just go, OK, so he doesn't want to do it, so I'll just leave it.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it isn't what he told me. He said, ah, you know, got all of these different things, and maybe later, and this, and then that. That's it! People who are maybe this, or maybe that, maybe later, can do this, how about this time? Just kidding. What?
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker 2:How about you just say what's really going on?
Speaker:I think when I start to hear all those excuses coming up, then I want to give them some feedback around that. So say something, look, it sounds like you're really, uh, interested in doing this and I don't want to push you into anything. What do you reckon? And sometimes people say no, yeah, yeah, I'm going to do it. Yeah, just say the
Speaker 2:same old stuff,
Speaker:but
Speaker 2:then you want to ring the neck.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, sorry.
Speaker:Then yell wants to ring the neck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably. Yeah. I'm listening to you talking about it. You're already grown up.
Speaker:Uh, sometimes, no, I am in the face of, I am very practiced.
Speaker 2:So, I know I talk about this a lot, but in Narcotics Anonymous we talk a lot about people pleasing. We, I don't talk about it much anymore, but people talk about people pleasing, which is really what we're talking about.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's kind of that and it's just, it's frustrating, can be frustrating rather, not it is frustrating, can be frustrating because I'm thinking, yeah, but you just keep doing it.
Speaker 3:So
Speaker 2:you're talking about it and that's really good. But the, what am I saying? There's no action. There's just talk. So they don't change anything.
Speaker:I don't get frustrated with other people because otherwise I don't
Speaker 2:either.
Speaker:I think you might. Because otherwise then in some ways I'm trying to do their journey for them.
Speaker 2:That's true. We say We, as in the person saying, uh, we're doing another person's inventory. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. And I don't want to do that. I'm really happy for somebody to struggle alone, with whatever they're struggling with. That's on them. Or. to be brilliant if they need to as well. That's fantastic. I'm just not gonna do it for people or why would I feel frustrated with somebody else or be frustrated with them when all I need to manage is myself and that's it. I
Speaker 2:don't want people to be brilliant unless I'm as brilliant or possibly more brilliant.
Speaker:How's that going for you?
Speaker 2:Fantastic.
Speaker:\Great.
Not.
Speaker 2:We're back. I bet you didn't even know we were gone. Okay.
Speaker:So the other thing is really important to talk about this topic is when the people on the tail end of your conversation don't hear you know. So. So. What I've done as a strategy is I'll repeat myself and then I'll repeat myself and then I'll repeat myself. So it's like this broken record and you say it a couple of times and you might say it differently, what you want to do is keep saying the same sentence over and over so that they can hear what you actually mean. Otherwise, if they just keep talking over you or dismissing you or getting on with it. then your no is not being heard. So, let's do a demo, Kitten.
Speaker 2:Okay, what are we going to do?
Speaker:Well, uh, you're going to ask me to mow your lawn, your pretend lawn, which you don't have.
Speaker 2:Hey, Jemime, will you mow my lawns? Because they've got really long.
Speaker:Oh, they have. Yeah. Yeah, I know it's been a while. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that I'm able to do that. That
Speaker 2:would be great if you could.
Speaker:I know, and I have done it in the past. Yeah, I know. So, actually, when I'm thinking about it, I need to say no, Kevin.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. So, when do you think you could do it?
Speaker:like I said,
Speaker 2:Yeah?
Speaker:Uh, I think this is too much for me, so I'm going to say no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I know that you could do it, say, in a couple of days time.
Speaker:Kevin, I know you wanted me to do it. I'm not sure what your other options are. but I'm gonna say no for this time.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker:I've stop
Speaker 2:there. Oh, ashes come to rescue you.
Speaker:She's worried.
Speaker 2:How would that feel if that was real pretty ugly for me.
Speaker:Ugly for you pushing it?
Speaker 2:Ugly for me. Hearing the no. It's a really selfish thing. Ugly for me hearing no.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But later on, I probably would have, regardless of the outcome of that.
Speaker:Yeah. I
Speaker 2:would have felt really bad for pushing it too.
Speaker:So now when I think about it, in the past, in terms of counselling, there'd be times when I. Have to change an
Speaker 3:appointment.
Speaker:So I guess, not only just saying no, but it's the hard conversations that are difficult to have with some people. And I think about the times when I've said to you, I'm going to need to change this appointment, Kevin. I
Speaker 2:would have been so helpful. Not.
Speaker:What did I say or do? Do you remember the feeling? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Abandoned.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, it's easy. That would have been me.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it was so hard to say.
Speaker 2:But you did it today. I didn't feel anything.
Speaker:What? Wait. Oh, I did. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You said, Oh, I'm really sorry. The workmen have stuffed up again or something. Which I
Speaker:did, yeah. And
Speaker 2:make it a bit later. And I just thought, It's alright. I can read my book a bit more.
Speaker:Oh, I know. Well,
Speaker 2:I'll go shopping.
Speaker:So, I guess over time, you've learnt that I'm going to say no to you in varied ways. Yeah. I'm going to say yes as well, but with the no's, you know that I'm not abandoning our friendship.
Speaker 2:No. Don't.
Speaker:And so, I guess that's part of what happens is when you're saying no and you're not used to it. Yeah. And. And people might think that they've always dependent on you. They're going to take some time getting used to that. You're still going to be dependable. Yeah. Okay. So it's kind of like a change in your friendship. If it's your friendship or your partner or your children, or your colleagues. It doesn't matter who it is, whoever you're in relationship with, or your dog, because even your dog, They put a lot of pressure on you to go for a walk and now, and go out now.
Speaker 2:And I want my dinner
Speaker:now.
Speaker 2:Now. So,
Speaker:sometimes they just need to
Speaker 2:nope,
Speaker:nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, in different tunes.
Speaker 2:Asha has little bells that she can put her feet on to ask for various things. It's like only around the shoes. Pressing the dinner, and she got dinner, and then she's pressing activity, I'm not sure if she got activity, it was very cute.
Speaker:And what happens is she ends up pressing the, I wanna play, play, and it's a, button with a play sound on it, and, so she wants to keep playing, and she comes back to play, and it's like, uh, so we now have to teach the dog, no, no, say no
Speaker 2:to the dog. The end. Yeah.
Speaker:So I think if you're going to say no, there's two things you need to be aware of. And that is being grounded. That means not worked up in your body and not reactive. So I want to be, reflective and I want to be calm and say no. So it's almost a, no, I can't do that. Ah. I'd like to help you out, but No, no, no. I can't. No. I was thinking about having some time on my own. No, I've been taking on too much.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker:And all of those answers are no. And calm, and they might say a little bit, but it's No, no, I actually can't do that. No, I can't help you out. And they're clear and they're not saying, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, which is a trap., And the other thing, which is almost an opposite to what I said around being grounded, what's not, but it, it's another way of doing it is, and let's go back to the woman I heard right at the beginning,
Speaker 3:um,
Speaker:who talked about saying no to her friends and she went, no, I'm not doing that. So the other thing I would say is to bounce, saying no, I'm going to spend the time on my own. No, I've been so looking forward to free time. No, I'd like to say yes to you, but I need to say no. So it's the bounce and almost the, uh, I'm going to say fun. But it changes the tone of it and it, takes the pressure off yourself and the person who's on the tail end of the conversation. Do I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. Yeah, it changes, it changes the whole tone. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:So I'm not expecting a response. So if you were to ask me again tomorrow, you're a
Speaker 2:fake lawn. Hey Janine, mow my lawn. Oh.
Speaker:And you'd ask like
Speaker 2:that? Well, I just did. Hey Janine, would you mow my lawn again? I
Speaker:can't. Oh, Kevin, I'd like to do that. You know I'd like to do that. I just can't. I've
Speaker 2:got too much on. Yeah, that works. But how about if you wouldn't like to do that?
Speaker:Well, it's the same. It's like, oh, Kevin. I'd like to help you out but I'm not going to be able to mow your lawn. No.
Speaker 2:Okay. It's very simple really, isn't it?
Speaker:Yeah. I think it's still around training yourself and your own body to soothe and just be okay with the no. You're going to get some push back but notice that it's your anxiety and the other person's anxiety. You gotta manage and it'll change. It'll change.
Speaker 2:What about when it's a group situation and the group's expecting you to do something?
Speaker:Both of us have
Speaker 2:got experience with that.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's like, Oh, Kevin will do that or Janine will do that
Speaker:and you go,
Speaker 2:really? What am I doing? Yeah, I don't want to do that, so yeah.
Speaker:Oh, I've absolutely taken on stuff when it was not what I wanted to do, it was not my skill set. And I felt complete pressure from a whole group and it was at the end of the day and there was a website they wanted me, this particular committee had wanted me to take charge and look after and as you know Kevin, I'm not technically minded. And there was no other position left and I was the only one that didn't have something else to add it on. And so they left it with me and it was the biggest thing. And it was the thing that everybody didn't want to do. Yeah. And nor had I had the skills to do this. And I was completely stressed for months and felt bullied into a position I did not want to do. Didn't know how to say no. I think sometimes around that. It's almost foreseeing that in the future. And what I ended up doing for future me, is I ended up resigning that position. They were pretty cross.
Speaker 3:They
Speaker:were pretty cross with me, for resigning in this committee. Because they wanted A yes person, and I wasn't going to, or nor could I do that. And in the end they needed to employ, and they did employ, someone to look after the website. What do you know? Because my position was untenable. It wasn't possible. It wasn't possible for them or anyone else without this particular expertise. We know that now. But back then when IT was just starting up, it wasn't possible. And websites were the thing of that's what you had to do.
Speaker 2:It's easy to get railroaded, isn't it?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Almost in your absence. It's like it's already sorted out and then it's presented to you. And that's really, really difficult to say no to. And I, I got caught in that a few times. Yeah. And I get really resentful and angry. and don't express it. So yeah, it means I'm hurting myself, not looking after myself. These days. I don't do that. I just, I find it rather easy. It still happens. Yeah, it does. So it's like, oh, Kevin, it would be really good if you took up this position. Yeah. No, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker:You've done many roles like that in NA, haven't you? Yeah, that's what I was thinking
Speaker 2:of in particular. because of my career as a, you know, program, everybody thinks if you're a programmer, then you must know. Everything about computers and you
Speaker:can do it easily and quickly and you can do it for us and
Speaker 2:you can do it for free.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker 2:Unless it's close friends. I always sort of say, well, you know, that's not exactly what I do. Or if I feel like doing it, I'll say, yeah, you know, it costs this much an hour.
Speaker:The interesting thing is when this group of people asked me, and I think that might be similar with N. A., is that they're a helping profession. So mine was a counselling group and so it was a counselling committee and so in my mind's eyes I thought this is people from a helping profession, they wouldn't do anything that wasn't caring or loving or best of our health and that wasn't true. And in the end they're just people.
Speaker 2:We're going to get some flack for this because I'm going to say the same similar kind of thing, which is like If I get, let myself be railroaded then it has an immense effect on me And it means that I will do it again and again and again and again. If I don't then I get Not directly criticized, but oh, you know, it'd be good for you. It's good to do service Kevin
Speaker:It's
Speaker 2:um, it's manipulative.
Speaker:Oh, that's a clever thing. It's good to do service. Yeah,
Speaker 2:and it's, it is good, it is good to do service. It's really
Speaker:good to do service.
Speaker 2:It is good.
Speaker:Why can't you help them out? It is
Speaker 2:good. You've got
Speaker:this skill set. You would be very helpful. And I'm sure you can just put a little bit of time in this area. Janine,
Speaker 2:it is good to do service, but I like to pick, The time and the place that I do service. So I won't be doing that.
Speaker:No sense I've given. Well, I've had a lot of
Speaker 2:practice. You have. Yeah, so I don't need to say that anymore. What
Speaker:you're actually saying is, we all need practice is it doesn't come easily and you've got to help your body and help yourself. Oh,
Speaker 2:that's a good point. Does it? Are there people out there that it comes easily
Speaker:to? Ah, if it does, well, good on them. Fantastic. For some of us, it does not.
Speaker 2:Maybe that word that I always have trouble saying, Narcissist. Narc is that the word?
Speaker:That could be our word. Narcissist. I tend not to use those terms because people can be very much that personality. Type or they might be part of that personality type, you know, and we can all have parts of ourselves that are Narcissistic, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Narcissistic.
Speaker:Or we'll have moments of that or there are people who have the bulk of their character is like that So, I guess I want to look at the behaviors and treat them
Speaker 2:and respond to those. Yeah. It doesn't really matter in the end, does it? It's about looking after me. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:There was one other thing is, I was thinking about, if I were put in that same situation again, the thing I would say, if I felt, and sometimes people out there, if there's a group of people, I think there's particular pressure as we've talked about.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:in the moment to say yes. And so let's say you cave in the moment and you say yes, but then you go away and go, Oh, actually I'm terrified of this, or I don't want it. It's not going to fit with me. It's too much. I can go back.
Speaker 2:Not selling concrete.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Never. That's
Speaker:right. So I can go back and say, I've thought about it and I'm going to need to say no. Yeah. So I, so please people, feel like the, the yes isn't always solid. It doesn't always have to stay. You can give yourself permission to go back and respond authentically to it. And all
Speaker 2:of those responses are healthy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:As opposed to, oh yeah, I'll do it. I'm thinking, oh, I really don't want to do this. So yeah. Yeah. How do I get out of this? The obvious way is to just say no, but yeah, anyway, yeah.
Speaker:I think we've left the listeners a few things to think about.
Speaker 2:I think so. Well, they could always say no.
Speaker:I want to wish you the best with having a go at saying no. If you're a person who says yes all the time, then what I want to say is. Go slow and just practice. Just practice. Get used to it. You'll be okay. What? I don't
Speaker 2:run. So,
Speaker:so,
Speaker 2:hey folks. I can't do it. I'm laughing too much. Now Kevin's crying.
Speaker:Hey
Speaker 2:folks, say no. Go slow.
Speaker 3:That's a good mantra.
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 3:Well,
Speaker:why are you laughing?
Speaker 2:Because it was funny. Alright. I'm done. Oh
Speaker:my god, we're back there again.
Speaker 3:Thanks for listening. I'm gonna have a conversation with Kevin and yell, I imagine.
Speaker 2:Bye, thanks for being here, even though you're not. We'll
Speaker 3:talk to you next time.
Speaker:Bye.